The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

[Masta' C]

The middle ground is a straightforward, back-to-back comparison like ZenMindBeginner did. Unfortunately, you can't avoid bias unless there is some degree of blinding. People with preconceptions about how a particular pickup sounds will likely continue to insist that their belief holds true if they know which clips belong to which pickup.

Blinding forces people to be more honest with their perceptions and I think the pushback Ace is receiving in this regard is largely because most of us don't want to have our own beliefs proven wrong. To that end, babying people's beliefs isn't what this comparison should be about.

[ToneFiddler]

in the ZenMindBeginner demo i preferred , NO, let me rephrase: the lesser evil was the production JB because it was the most edgy/modern sounding.
i don't like smooth, warm and round (the production wasn't as round as the other 2) and those prominent mids are ultra annoying!
with a more agressive or scooped sound (or 500k pots if 250k were used), i might have preferred a different version.
a test can never be neutral, because the one setup will always favor a particular pickup. they're only good to highlight the differences.
so i think ace's test will prove nothing, but might be useful if he's able to highlight the differences.

[beaubrummels]

The middle ground is a straightforward, back-to-back comparison like ZenMindBeginner did. Unfortunately, you can't avoid bias unless there is some degree of blinding. People with preconceptions about how a particular pickup sounds will likely continue to insist that their belief holds true if they know which clips belong to which pickup.

Blinding forces people to be more honest with their perceptions and I think the pushback Ace is receiving in this regard is largely because most of us don't want to have our own beliefs proven wrong. To that end, babying people's beliefs isn't what this comparison should be about.

The whole problem with the comparison video in answering Ace's original hypothesis, and the reason for this test, is in the video they announce what each pickup is before you hear it.

One thing I'll add that hasn't been brought up: when there are blind recordings to compare for this test, Ace will have to post as a locked thread and force everyone to PM their answers, because if we all post here, the first few responses could influence anyone listening later because they might question their own hearing of the clips based on earlier comments.

[Gtrjunior]

The whole problem with the comparison video in answering Ace's original hypothesis, and the reason for this test, is in the video they announce what each pickup is before you hear it.

One thing I'll add that hasn't been brought up: when there are blind recordings to compare for this test, Ace will have to post as a locked thread and force everyone to PM their answers, because if we all post here, the first few responses could influence anyone listening later because they might question their own hearing of the clips based on earlier comments.

Agreed. Good idea.

[Securb]

(though I would argue increasingly unlikely) that some roughcast mags slipped into short runs over the years if those were the only thing available from the supplier or in the shop that day, but, I can say with great certainty that, 99.9% of the time, if it has a "Seymour Duncan" logo stamped into the baseplate, it also has a polished mag..

This. While I know SD has very high manufacturing standards, we know traditionally in this industry there is drift. Suppliers for magnets, wire, and bobbins can change. There is also human error. This is the reason why no two pickups will be exactly the same, especially the older models. This being said the JB being played in the video could be hotter than yours or vice-versa. To do any testing of anything first you need to establish a baseline or control. From what I have seen in 19 pages that has not been established.

[Masta' C]

Blind reporting of individual perceptions is a great idea. We can also keep it anonymous when results are reported by Ace, so no person is singled out.

[Masta' C]

To do any testing of anything first you need to establish a baseline or control. From what I have seen in 19 pages that has not been established.

I think the ideal control would be a current production pickup, purchased directly from an authorized dealer to avoid the potential of counterfeit or previous modification. We know that production is very standardized at this point and production tolerances are very tight.

[zakkwyldefan79]

Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread



I've never heard them in the same guitar. But the JB has a 'sound' and they all have it. While this pickup has its fans, I was never one of them...of any of the JB types.

I agree with you. I've never been a JB fan either. I've had several different versions (modern SH-4, TB-4, covered & open coil, 80's JBJ & JBL) and didn't like any of them. Duncan makes several pickups that I like a lot but the JB just doesn't work for me. I've tried them in different guitars and through different amps and still no.

[playas]

And at some point someone is bound to make a comment that will reveal the identities or skew interpretation at the very least.

[Demanic]

Is there even one single sound clip of ANY form of JB in this thread?
I'd be happy at this point if someone, anyone, posts a clip of them playing any JB through any setup, regardless of whether or not it makes for an objective comparison with any other JB.
Are we going to fish, or cut bait?

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

[Lewguitar]

Is there even one single sound clip of ANY form of JB in this thread?
I'd be happy at this point if someone, anyone, posts a clip of them playing any JB through any setup, regardless of whether or not it makes for an objective comparison with any other JB.
Are we going to fish, or cut bait?https://media3.giphy.com/media/12VxX...&rid=giphy.gif

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

Oh yes. A very good one. Judging by the looks of the guitar (two single coils and one HB), I suspect this was done with 250K pots in the guitar. Not 500K like most folks have in their humbucker guitars. But that's ok. The JB is one pickup I think sounds better with 250K pots. Smoother. Easier on the ears.

I am not a JB kinda guy, but I thought all three versions sounded very good in this clip posted by another member, and that anyone wanting a JB would probably be happy with either of the three. I kind of favored the 35th Anniversary and the Antiquity, but the stock JB didn't sound much different in the clip.

[Aceman]

i
a test can never be neutral, because the one setup will always favor a particular pickup. they're only good to highlight the differences.

Yes it can. Everybody knows that the JBJ is the best JB ever made. And it is totally different from the Modern ones vs the later early JB's. we all know that!

What a test can be is ask the question while holding all other things constant - thus isolating the ONE important variable: In this case, which JB.
- Take out the differences in guitars
- Take out the differences in amps/settings
- In this case, even take out the players knowledge and prefences

Then all you are left with is:
- Your opinions, and it seems a lot of people have far more of those than actual JB's
- And your ears

And knowing enough about people, opinions are usually far stronger than reality.

So when you tell me that a JBJ is the best JB ever known and I play clips from 5 different JB's and you pick a current production JB as the JBJ, or you pick a 200's JB as your favorite sound,

Yeah - I "Gotcha". If I DON'T TELL YOU which JB is which, you can't tell.

Now - this may well not be all people. But I bet it is most people.

And I'm gonna make sure the "artist" doesn't know what brush he is using either....so we will hear from them too. I might go down to key west around Christmas. I'll stop at Yngwie's and ask him if he is interested.

[Aceman]

The middle ground is a straightforward, back-to-back comparison like ZenMindBeginner did. Unfortunately, you can't avoid bias unless there is some degree of blinding. People with preconceptions about how a particular pickup sounds will likely continue to insist that their belief holds true if they know which clips belong to which pickup.

Blinding forces people to be more honest with their perceptions and I think the pushback Ace is receiving in this regard is largely because most of us don't want to have our own beliefs proven wrong. To that end, babying people's beliefs isn't what this comparison should be about.

This guy right here, he gets it.

Again - I'm not denying that there are differences, or that there are people who can perceive them.

I am saying the differences are small, most can't perceive them, and those that can may not choose the thing that matches their perception. Ergo: BS on everyone. Apologies to those that nail it.

[Aceman]

This being said the JB being played in the video could be hotter than yours or vice-versa. To do any testing of anything first you need to establish a baseline or control. From what I have seen in 19 pages that has not been established.

Dude - really? That hurts!

Here is the stable so far:

1. A JBJ
2. A JB from 80's that is NOT a JBJ
3. An Antiquity
4. A Post (not sure date) JB
5. A Current Production JB

And yeah - we'll check on a meter, and look at the magnets. From space. It's the only way to be sure.

[beaubrummels]

If you really want to nail it, all contestant JBs need to have the same Henries, mv and DCR. ;-)