50 watts or 100 watts?

[SlowGroove]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Dude the 50w is pretty loud. I don't think you can hear the difference unless you're at the back of a stadium. I had a 50w JCM 2x12 and it's plenty loud unless you're playing stadiums. I used those as my main amps for 2 years. I had a 100w hea and the combo. Fantastic amplifiers but I like origial plexi sounds with pedals so I let the JVM go.

I used Tung-sol preamp and power tubes and switched to Tung-Sol preamp tubes. Highly recommend these tubes man.

Tom Morello from Rage Against The Machine/AudioSlave uses "one" 50W JCM800 for his entire carreer, and they did the biggest stadiums in the world !

I was told that the 100W units have bigger trannies thsan the 50W versions, and that the bigger trannies have a bigger kick in the low end, so that might sway you into a direction !
There (afaik) is "only" a 3dB diff. between a 50Watter and the bigger 100W unit !



James

 

[Skullkrusher]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Well, from what you guys are telling me and from what information I've gotten on my own.....100 watts is a definite no go for what I'm doing. So, scratch that one OFF the list.

This thread really shows how ignorant I am towards amps. It's a shame. All these years of playing and I'm still a "newb". lol

What should I be looking at then if I were to go away from Marshall all together. What can help me get a crushing, heavy sound, but not be ear piercing?

 

[some_dude]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

What should I be looking at then if I were to go away from Marshall all together. What can help me get a crushing, heavy sound, but not be ear piercing?

Define 'crushing and heavy'...

...are we talking thrash, hardcore, sludge, doom, death, black...

 

[Skullkrusher]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Define 'crushing and heavy'...

...are we talking thrash, hardcore, sludge, doom, death, black...

I guess I should have stated this already....my bad.

I'd like to be able to go from a Amon Amarth type heavy to possibly even Six Feet Under type of distortion.

 

[some_dude]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

I guess I should have stated this already....my bad.

I'd like to be able to go from a Amon Amarth type heavy to possibly even Six Feet Under type of distortion.

50w.

 

[lex666]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

I say 50 watts thru a 4 x 12...

 

[shaka]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

I guess I should have stated this already....my bad.

I'd like to be able to go from a Amon Amarth type heavy to possibly even Six Feet Under type of distortion.

I think that a fifty watt Marshall will work out for you. If for whatever reason it doesn't have quite enough distortion for you then kick on an overdrive pedal to give it a little more grit.

Another way to go is to look at a Ceriatone. They make a JCM800 clone and Nik can mod it with a type of power scaling so you can turn it down a bit after achieving the great power tube distortion. While these amps are built in the far east they are top notch in every way and easy on the wallet. Buy one, slap a Marshall logo on it and you're good to go.

If you want something that will fit in your car get a 2x12 and a roadcase. When you gig set the cab on top of its roadcase. You will be able to hear it better than a 4x12 sitting on the floor and it will not kill the faces of the audience. I've learned that 4x12's are almost as much overkill as 100 watt amps and are a pain to haul around.

 

[Ascension]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

It's all just a matter of headroom really...
Since 100W is about 8-10% louder than 50, it's more or less neglible volume wise.
If you want your head to stay tight and defined even on high volume settings, go with the 100. If you want early breakup, the 50 is for you.

I agree whole heartedly. Also a 100 watter will have more bottom and be tighter overall.
My normal Prosonic head at 60 watts is cool but set it beside the Areosmith 120 watter and it just sounds puny. The real difference in the 2 amps is the transformer and 2 additional power tubes but the tonal difference is remarkable.
I saw the same thing with a JCM 2000 DLS 100 and DSL 50.

 

[lex666]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

3 words:

Mesa

Road

King

 

[JOLLY]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

I will say one thing as far as cabinets/speakers go. I personally don't care for the way a JVM sounds with Vintage 30's. I also didn't care for the way it sounded with my 5150 slant cab. Once I got a 1960A with the G12T75's it was perfect. I came to find out later that the JVM was designed to work best with those speakers. I bet it would be even better with a Greenback loaded cabinet. I just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Some good info in this thread, and some bad. Here's my two pennies:

MYTH: 100 watt amps are way louder than 50 watt amps
FACT: Most amps that come in either a 50 or 100 watt config differ only very slightly in volume. The most apparent difference between the two amps will be more clean headroom in the 100W model. This can be good or bad depending on your tastes.

MYTH: You need to turn a tube amp's master volume up to get good tone
FACT: To a certain degree, this is absolutely correct. However, this is a general rule that does not apply to all tube amps everywhere. Some tube amps need to be cranked to sound good, others only need a bit of volume. Modern amps in particular seem to be better designed for low volume use, but again, this is only a generalization. I played through a Dr Z Route 66 once that sounded incredible with the volume at 1. I've also played through Marshalls that sounded awful until the master was pushed past 5 or 6.

MYTH: 50 or 100 watts will be too loud for club gigs.
FACT: Simply not true from my experience, especially with 50W. There are a lot of factors at play that will determine your stage volume, and amp power rating is only one of them. Your speakers, cab size, open/closed back, and last but not least, the room all come into play.

MYTH: A 15 watt amp will always sound better at low volumes than a 50 watt amp
FACT: Again, not always the case from my experience. Besides, it's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison since nobody makes a 15 watt amp that's tonally equivalent to a 50 or 100 watt head. By sheer virtue of its design, a 15 watt amp will sound different regardless of volume. This type of statement also ignores the fact that some people don't actually want power tube clipping. Metal dudes, for instance, like a clipped preamp pumping into a fat, yet relatively clean power amp. These guys need big amps to get their tone. This is why amps like the Triple Rectifier exist. You can't get that tone from a 15 watt amp.

MYTH: A 50 watt amp from Company A will be just as loud as a 50 watt amp from Company B.
FACT: Absolutely not. Each amp is different, even within a manufacturer's line. Like I said above, power output is only one factor of many. I've heard 30 watt amps that easily overpowered 100 watt amps.

I really wish people wouldn't pay too much attention to the wattage number when buying an amp. It's just a number. Every amp is different, and will give you different results. Buy the amp that works and sounds best for you and your situation. It's that simple. Don't get hung up on wattage and other such things - let your ears decide.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Frankie Hannon still sounds good at a voice's volume.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-_4TqiNRdY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXprhM5qfT0

and I think the JVM sounds good no matter what volume you play it at!!

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

What is a Watt?

A watt is a unit of energy, like horsepower or joules. In audio, a watt is used to describe the energy output of a receiver or amplifier used to power a loudspeaker. The relationship between power output and speaker loudness or volume is not linear or straight (+10 watts does not equal +10 dB). For example, if you compare the maximum volume of a 50-watt amplifier with a 100-watt amplifier the difference is only 3 dB, barely greater than the ability of the human ear to hear the difference. It would take an amplifier with 10 times more power (500 watts!) to be perceived as being twice as loud (a +10 dB increase). Keep this in mind when purchasing an amplifier or receiver. 2X the power output = +3 dB increase, 10X the power output = +10 dB increase, or twice as loud. So, what is the benefit of more power output? Read my article about amplifier

Google is your friend...at least for now.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

I dunno about myths vs facts. It's really just a matter of experience and opinion.

Q: Are 100 watt amps way louder than 50 watt amps?
A: Sometimes! My Twin Reverb amps were always a lot louder than my Pro Reverb amps. And my 100 watt Marshalls always seemed a lot louder than my 50 watters - louder and cleaner and deeper and tighter and more authoritive.
if you're playing a gig where you can crank a 100 watt Marshall plexi go for it - it's a blast playing through a cranked stack. Although everyone who has on a regular basis is probably deaf or near deaf or suffering from sever tinitus. Thinking of Townshend, Clapton, Beck, etc.
99% of the time it's way to loud for most gigs though.


Q: Do you need to turn a tube amp's master volume up to get good tone?
A: Usually - at least from my experience. I've never owned a master volume amp that sounded great unless the master was on at least 3 or 4.

Q: Are 50 or 100 watts too loud for club gigs?
A: Cranked so that the power tubes are working? Usually. There's not many clubs where you can crank a 100 watt Marshall to get natural tube overdrive.
Those days are all but gone. But I've seen Robben Ford many times and he always plays through 80 watt Twin Reverbs or something similar - otherwise, his clean tone would turn to mush.

Q: Will a 15 watt amp always sound better at low volumes than a 50 watt amp?
A: Don't recall anyone making that statement. But I will say that if the situation is such that the 50 watt amp can't be turned up past 2, then YES, the 15 watt amp turned up to 4 or 5 might sound better. Assuming they're both really good amps.

Q: Will a 50 watt amp from Company A be just as loud as a 50 watt amp from Company B?
A: Depends. Sometimes yes...sometimes no.

The last thing I want to reiterate, is that I have never shown up for a gig and not had enough amp to do the gig. But I've shown up plenty of times, especially in my youth, with way to much amp and the result was that I had a crappy clean sterile tone all night because I couldn't play it loud enough to kick the amp into overdrive.

Likewise, I've rarely been told to turn up. But I've been told to turn down many, many times.

Playing out is a lot more fun if I have an amp that's matched to the gig. My Deluxe Reverbs are 22 watt amps and with the Celestion G12H30 speaker they crank like a 30 watt or more amp.

They're perfect for 99% of the gigs I play - which are NEVER metal, grunge or hardcore kinda gigs. That's not my thing. I'm a blues player who likes to rock out sometimes.

And just to be contradictory, my favorite guitarists do/did tend to play 50 to 100 watt amps in concert: Jeff Beck, SRV, Jimi Hendrix, etc. But the truth is, I never have the opportunity to play that loud on a gig and neither do most of the guys here. We're not playing those kinds of stadium gigs for the most part - although there's always exceptions.

 

[Northwinds]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

All my Marshalls are 100w except my JCM 800 which is a 50w

I use a PB-1 Powerbrake, it allows me to harness all the power of the mighty 100w Marshall AT ANY LEVEL

Trust me, it is simplistic in design but you will understand fully what tone is after you have learned to use it correctly

There is no substitute for a 100w Marshall in full roar, absolutely nothing. You want that tone at SPL's that won't destroy your hearing?

Buy a Powerbrake and remember to ONLY use the best quality 6ohm speaker cables you can afford with it regardless of level or you will end up with blown tubes, output transformers or worse yet, totally destroy your head. You also need to remember to match up the impedences of the head and cabs used!

 

[jerryjg]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

HELLOOO!!!!!!! Theres This thing called a Master volume on my mKII 100 Watt Lead. It works. It really does. You see..you get a good G12M Marshall Cabinet, then you mix the Master and the Preamp in good proportion. Its' very loud, but nothing that will shatter your eardrums unless you have not done the right simple bright cap mods.It sounds absolutely awesome.
LookMan, I absolutely positively crankazz my 100 watt- its very very loud, but its not *too loud at all, is waht i guess I'm trying to convey.
Thats why they made the Master volume Marshalls in the first place.

 

[James Rock]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

My 15 watt Pro Junior is sometimes too loud to play with at drum volumes at anything more then 4 (it is running into a 2x12 cab but still) wattage is clearly only a small factor. A 50watt full stack is likely to be louder then an 100watt half stack albiet sometimes 100 watters have better tone then there 50 watt counterparts due to transformers and other circuit factors.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

If I took half of the advice these idiots give......I'd be a 25% moron.

Do what your heart says and rock out!!

 

[Brow]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

I'm not gonna get into the whole "which is better: 50w or 100w debate" (I own both myself) but 1 thing to consider that I don't think has been mentioned so far is cost.

If you have a 50w version and 100w version of the same amp, usually the 100w version is more expensive to buy and will also be more expensive to maintain (valves etc).

It could be seen as a bit of a moot point, but may be something to keep inmind.

 

[SlowGroove]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

My 15 watt Pro Junior is sometimes too loud to play with at drum volumes at anything more then 4 (it is running into a 2x12 cab but still) wattage is clearly only a small factor. A 50watt full stack is likely to be louder then an 100watt half stack albiet sometimes 100 watters have better tone then there 50 watt counterparts due to transformers and other circuit factors.

What i have also noticed that can contribute ALOT to the overall volue of an amp, especially on a smaller wattage amp like a 15Watter, is the speakers !
I A/B'ed two blues Jr's about 6months ago.
One was a stock unit, and the other had a Vintage 30 in.
The V30 amp was clearly louder, even at half volume !
Alot depends on the efficiency of the speakers being used !

Don't know how obvious the volume diff's will be on a 100W Marshall with FULL STACK 8x12's though ?
A 50W with very efficient drivers will most likely be LOUDER than a 100W units with much cheaper and less efficient speakers.
But on a small amp with only one speaker it is VERY noticable !



My 2cents
James