50 watts or 100 watts?

[SlowGroove]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

*cough* head *cough*

Cause you never know if you'll find yourself upgrading to a 4x12 or even two... especially with a Marshall.

Can't you run a 2x12 JVM combo with a 4x12 1960A...or B ?
A 6x12, sounds good to me . . . . very GOOD actually !



James

 

[Skullkrusher]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Thanks for all the help on this, fellas.

I'm still not exactly sure what I need to go with. It's gonna come down to me test driving these amps and seeing what I like/need.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Thanks for all the help on this, fellas.

I'm still not exactly sure what I need to go with. It's gonna come down to me test driving these amps and seeing what I like/need.

I like Lew's idea of renting one of each for a couple of gigs, and see how they do.

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Ok, a 238992839 page thread on this simple question... wow!

I'll try to sum up the differences between the 50 & 100W and different speaker cabs:

Headroom: 100's power section will stay clean longer. Meaning you'll have well defined power section vs an overdriven one. This CAN matter... especially if you wanna play clean cleans or if your sound comes mostly from the preamp or pedals.

Volume: 100W@9 will roughly equal 50W@10, so this won't be your problem at all.

Speakers: Depending on what you'll use, the 100W might drive your speakers more resulting in them opening up more. But the other way round (this won't be the matter with your 4x12) they can kill small cabs like a 2x12 loaded with low power speakers.

Regarding speaker cabs:

Some people think a 4x12 is way louder than a 2x12, which it is, in fact not. The volume difference is the same as with the 50w vs 100W... about 10% every tome you double the speakers... what WILL matter however is, that the larger cab "covers" a larger area, therefore you are more likely to stand "in the field" of the cab. Especially, if it's standing on the ground.
Another thing is bass response... since the 4x12 is larger, the bass will be bigger, but slightly less defined sounding.
Speaker sensitivity ratings are also very important since 3dB means about double the power (not volume once again)... so 4 97dB speakers are roughly as loud as a 100dB pair.


Yeah, so these are some factors to consider.

Can't you run a 2x12 JVM combo with a 4x12 1960A...or B ?
A 6x12, sounds good to me . . . . very GOOD actually !



James

If he's gonna run it trough a 4x12 anyway, I wouldn't care about the hassle of possible higher microphonics, more tube heat and (not sure about that) the open back pair of speakers. Also he'll have to watch out not getting an OHM mismatch here since combos are usually quite limited with that.




Best thing really seems to be trying out a bunch and/or looking what players at the venues you'll be playing usually have to get an idea.

 

[Forbes]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

So go ahead. Crank up that 100 watt amp...at home. When you actually take it out on a gig and try to turn it up, the bartender or club owner will tell you to turn it down - or tell you to leave.

Because they will. Simple as that.

I guess we are playing very different venues Lew. My 50 watt JCM 800 is always cranked to about 7/8, and ive never been asked to turn it down, in fact if its at about 6 i'm always asked to turn it up, i am sure it would produce more problems if i had a lower wattage amp. With perfect sound techs it wouldn't be an issue, but with dodgy monitors and other problems it's nice to be able to hear a bit of my guitar on stage.

I think you need to realise the difference between the gigs you play and the ones we do. Most of the places i gig are either designated rock bars or the 'band room' is seperate from the bar room, it is meant to be rediculously loud. Plus some people need alot of clean headroom when cranked.

I do fine with my 50, saying that i dont have much clean headroom, if i used that more i'd rather a 100watter. What you need depends on what music you play and where you gig. I'd look at what similar bands playing similar venues are running through and go from there.

 

[lex666]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Where does amp distortion fit into this equation?

Assuming you're using amp distortion for your gain or crunch sound, wouldn't you be able to achieve better distortion at a lower volume using an amp of less wattage?

 

[Skullkrusher]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

The clubs I'll be playing in cater to Heavy Metal in all its glory. I don't think being too loud will be a problem. I still don't want an amp that is overkill either though.

I will very rarely need a clean sound from my amp. That's besides the point though, if I need clean I'll just use my bros Hot Rod Deluxe.

The amp I'm looking for now just has to be a Heavy Metal MONSTER.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Turn it up or shut it up is my motto when it comes to rockin....but then again, I'm so deaf I can't even hear myself fart.

 

[sosomething]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Look, people

I get so sick of this.

An amp is just a tool. You use the right tool for the job.

Despite the very fashionable "conventional wisdom" these days regarding tube amps, the tired old adage of "35 watts is plenty loud enough unless you're playing Wrigley Field with no PA" just isn't a generalization that holds true across the board... No matter how level-headed and experienced stating so makes you appear on a web forum.

1/2 of the gigs I play with my band are stoner/doom metal shows at filthy, wretched bars that....

....wait for it....

....DO NOT MIC THE GUITAR CABINETS BECAUSE THE PA IS SO DECREPIT AND POORLY MANNED THAT IT'S ONLY BARELY SERVICEABLE FOR VOCALS.

At most of these places, your stage volume = FOH and you and your rig are positioned within elbow-smacking distance of both your drummer and bass player. YOU MUST PLAY LOUD.

At the volumes I need at places like that, 50 watts is just barely enough to get the job done, and more because of headroom than actual volume. My tone is the result of a very careful and deliberate blend of preamp gain and poweramp saturation, and that balance tends to tip waaay too far in one direction if I need to get over my drummer and bass player using a 50 watt amp at most venues we play.

In fact, in our circles, 100 watt tube half stacks are just within the lower acceptable range of amplification status-quo. That's not to say there's no such thing as too loud... when we played with Indian last month, their guitarist was using a Sunn model T and some other crazy solid-state 300w Sunn through two Emperor 6x12 cabs and he was, in fact, way too effing loud, but my band running two 120 watt half stacks (one per guitar player) was just about right.

If your set contains a cover of "Cinnamon Girl," or your drummer has had hip replacement surgury, or people can order salads at the places you play, then enjoy the ease and practicality of your little combos.

If you play agressive metal in slimey dive bars that don't always mic everything and you need your low-end to hold together, consider the 100 watt head.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Look, people

I get so sick of this.

An amp is just a tool. You use the right tool for the job.

A-frackin'-men. This is exactly what I meant when I said this:

I really wish people wouldn't pay too much attention to the wattage number when buying an amp. It's just a number. Every amp is different, and will give you different results. Buy the amp that works and sounds best for you and your situation. It's that simple. Don't get hung up on wattage and other such things - let your ears decide.

 

[sosomething]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

you an me is just like peas an ca rots

 

[ErikH]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

This is why I use a modeler these days. It sounds good no matter what volume I have it at. Works for indoor and outdoor gigs, large and small venues. Heck, I even ran my RP-500 in to the board at one gig because the stage was so small there was barely any room for me to stand...LOL.

We gig with our own PA and have our own sound person so we don't have to deal with the not enough inputs or not up to the task PA problems that other places seem to have. Besides, most of the places we play are bars and clubs that don't have their own PA anyways.

Different situations call for different tools. The amp is one of the tools necessary for the job. One is not going to use a sledgehammer to drive in a finishing nail and one sure as heck isn't going to use a dremel tool to drill for oil. Get the tool you need to perform the task at hand. If it's a 50 watt head and 4x12 because the PA's are POS's and/or the sound person can't mix to save his life, then so be it. If you are running everything through the PA, a combo with lower or the same wattage will suffice.

 

[SlowGroove]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Look, people

I get so sick of this.

An amp is just a tool. You use the right tool for the job.

Despite the very fashionable "conventional wisdom" these days regarding tube amps, the tired old adage of "35 watts is plenty loud enough unless you're playing Wrigley Field with no PA" just isn't a generalization that holds true across the board... No matter how level-headed and experienced stating so makes you appear on a web forum.

1/2 of the gigs I play with my band are stoner/doom metal shows at filthy, wretched bars that....

....wait for it....

....DO NOT MIC THE GUITAR CABINETS BECAUSE THE PA IS SO DECREPIT AND POORLY MANNED THAT IT'S ONLY BARELY SERVICEABLE FOR VOCALS.

At most of these places, your stage volume = FOH and you and your rig are positioned within elbow-smacking distance of both your drummer and bass player. YOU MUST PLAY LOUD.

At the volumes I need at places like that, 50 watts is just barely enough to get the job done, and more because of headroom than actual volume. My tone is the result of a very careful and deliberate blend of preamp gain and poweramp saturation, and that balance tends to tip waaay too far in one direction if I need to get over my drummer and bass player using a 50 watt amp at most venues we play.

In fact, in our circles, 100 watt tube half stacks are just within the lower acceptable range of amplification status-quo. That's not to say there's no such thing as too loud... when we played with Indian last month, their guitarist was using a Sunn model T and some other crazy solid-state 300w Sunn through two Emperor 6x12 cabs and he was, in fact, way too effing loud, but my band running two 120 watt half stacks (one per guitar player) was just about right.

If your set contains a cover of "Cinnamon Girl," or your drummer has had hip replacement surgury, or people can order salads at the places you play, then enjoy the ease and practicality of your little combos.

If you play agressive metal in slimey dive bars that don't always mic everything and you need your low-end to hold together, consider the 100 watt head.

Looks like me and you play the same genres :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/knaaq/12296033/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/krakow81/101244005/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/matt666/97665754/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonnikafka/2656053861/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hajimeru/2633246650/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jbroom/2378405566/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/henrik_lindberg/2049778519/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/victhortheviking/2822401864/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zimfo/2881596637/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandonwu/3076904384/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zimfo/2873489396/




James

 

[SlowGroove]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

I'm seriously leaning towards a JVM. I don't know whether I want a combo or head though. Which wattage should I go with? I'm going to be playing out at small to medium size places.

Seems like 100 watts would be too much for my needs, but I don't want to short myself either.

Buy this album, and never look back !

http://www.amazon.com/Amplifier-Wor...=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1228444785&sr=1-6



James

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Look, people

I get so sick of this.

An amp is just a tool. You use the right tool for the job.

Despite the very fashionable "conventional wisdom" these days regarding tube amps, the tired old adage of "35 watts is plenty loud enough unless you're playing Wrigley Field with no PA" just isn't a generalization that holds true across the board... No matter how level-headed and experienced stating so makes you appear on a web forum.

1/2 of the gigs I play with my band are stoner/doom metal shows at filthy, wretched bars that....

....wait for it....

....DO NOT MIC THE GUITAR CABINETS BECAUSE THE PA IS SO DECREPIT AND POORLY MANNED THAT IT'S ONLY BARELY SERVICEABLE FOR VOCALS.

At most of these places, your stage volume = FOH and you and your rig are positioned within elbow-smacking distance of both your drummer and bass player. YOU MUST PLAY LOUD.

At the volumes I need at places like that, 50 watts is just barely enough to get the job done, and more because of headroom than actual volume. My tone is the result of a very careful and deliberate blend of preamp gain and poweramp saturation, and that balance tends to tip waaay too far in one direction if I need to get over my drummer and bass player using a 50 watt amp at most venues we play.

In fact, in our circles, 100 watt tube half stacks are just within the lower acceptable range of amplification status-quo. That's not to say there's no such thing as too loud... when we played with Indian last month, their guitarist was using a Sunn model T and some other crazy solid-state 300w Sunn through two Emperor 6x12 cabs and he was, in fact, way too effing loud, but my band running two 120 watt half stacks (one per guitar player) was just about right.

If your set contains a cover of "Cinnamon Girl," or your drummer has had hip replacement surgury, or people can order salads at the places you play, then enjoy the ease and practicality of your little combos.

If you play agressive metal in slimey dive bars that don't always mic everything and you need your low-end to hold together, consider the 100 watt head.

That's exactly correct. No one solution, no matter how sensible it may seem, will fit all.

I play in three different bands, and requirements vary wildly, from a 15w combo to a 100w halfstack being suitable. The venues I play and their pa systems vary even more widely. Sometimes I have everything I could need for monitoring, other times much less.

Taking a POD or a blues jr to a bar without a suitable PA is just as stupid as taking a 5150 to a small church and cranking it.

 

[sosomething]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Looks like me and you play the same genres :

James

Uh, yes. Yes it does.

 

[34029324079]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

I have not read this thread...

here is my take: I cant fit a 4x12 in my car. Im a broke ass mofo that aint buyin no new car. In the future, I wonder what I will do.

I could get two cabs that are 2x12. if it is a smaller club or practice studio, Ill let the 100watt dual recto push just a 2x12! There, that solves it. and maybe a hotplate or pull tubes. Hey, I like my ears, best piece of sound equipment I have found yet

 

[the_SLOP_king]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

I would go with 50w. They break up a little easier. And if you push them, they sound better, too.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

Despite the very fashionable "conventional wisdom" these days regarding tube amps, the tired old adage of "35 watts is plenty loud enough unless you're playing Wrigley Field with no PA" just isn't a generalization that holds true across the board... No matter how level-headed and experienced stating so makes you appear on a web forum.

This goes right along with what I posted on page 3.

Annother big mis-conception is that if an amp is tiny and you put it throgh a 5000 watt PA and the sound guy cranks that PA, that it's somehow quiet cause of the size of the amp.

BS

Loud is loud, whether it comes from an amp, or a PA, and I'd rather keep my dynamic control in my own hands instead of letting some meathead turn me up and down in a PA.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: 50 watts or 100 watts?

30w is way too loud. The problem with a 30w amp is that you can't get it into it's sweet spot without cranking it up to the point where it's too loud. Besides, 30w is more headroom than anyone needs, with a PA you can easily use a 5w amp and mic it for more volume.

loud is loud....pa or amp