59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

[Jerzey2222]

So I just got a harmonic design neck pup for my equator hollowbody and I can't seem to bond with it. I have experience with 59's and always put an a4 in them (neck position). I was thinking about the SL though because I had a wolftone mkii that I liked and that was unpotted like the Seth Lover. Comparing the seth and 59 with them both having A4's, what differences will I notice? Things I would like to improve on a 59 A4 would be to get better responsiveness and more presence and harmonics while still remaining fat like a good PAF. I always wondered if the Seth is just a slightly underwound unpotted 59? Besides the potting and magnets what are the differences between the two pups? Is the seth closer to an old PAF?

I think I remember reading about someone on here switched from a harmonic design to a Seth and kept the Seth so that was good to hear. The HD just didn't have any mojo or vibe. It sounds good but it has no character. Kind of cold imo. I think it has to do with a deguassed a5 and a 8.40k resistance. I actually got one open and it is not constructed like a PAF at all. The guy wouldn't let me return it and I've only had it for 2 days. If anyone would like pics of the inside let me know. It's definitely different.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

Comparing the seth and 59 with them both having A4's, what differences will I notice? Things I would like to improve on a 59 A4 would be to get better responsiveness and more presence and harmonics while still remaining fat like a good PAF.

don't want to assume too much before commenting on that, but have you tried the Seth Lovers with the stock A2 magnets and the 59 Model with the stock A5 magnets?

I always wondered if the Seth is just a slightly underwound unpotted 59? Besides the potting and magnets what are the differences between the two pups?

they claim to both be wound on the Leesona and there are those that might suggest the only differences would be the amount of turns. others might choose to factor in how the Leesona is set up by the operator before use. depends on who you ask.

Is the seth closer to an old PAF?

As far as the Duncan company catalog, Yes.

 

[Jerzey2222]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

Thanks for the reply. Yes I have tried the 59 with the stock a5. I've never tried a seth. Yet..

 

[Jerzey2222]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

I liked how the a4 was less boomy with more mids

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

My A4 Tom Holmes sets have less mids not more mids than my PG's and APH-2's.

Kind of airy and not so thick. Sort of steely and empty.

They are another take on the 59 PAF.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

Thanks for the reply. Yes I have tried the 59 with the stock a5. I've never tried a seth. Yet..

The Seth should be more responsive. As for being fat, that's going to be for your ear....one player's fat is another player's flabby. Definitely try them stock for a while before considering any mag swaps.

 

[marcello252]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

In my opinion the best neck magnet with Paf-like design is the A2, followed at a certain distance by A3, then A4, then UOA5, then A5. Tried all of them with APH-1 and '59 with similar results.

 

[Jerzey2222]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

My A4 Tom Holmes sets have less mids not more mids than my PG's and APH-2's.

Kind of airy and not so thick. Sort of steely and empty.

They are another take on the 59 PAF.

Yea I noticed more mids with the a4 vs the a5 but even more mids with a2. A2's might be too dark though on a hollowbody?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

Yea I noticed more mids with the a4 vs the a5 but even more mids with a2. A2's might be too dark though on a hollowbody?

It's interesting that when Throbak describes their pickups they describe A5 as having "prominent mids" or "mid dominant".

http://www.throbak.com/throbak-pickup-buyers-guide.html

That's the opposite of my own experience.

 

[Jerzey2222]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

I have some a3's so I'll have to give them a try on the pickup I go with.

Can anyone suggest something better than the seth or is that the ticket for what I'm after?. Has anyone liked some boutique winders more than the Seth Lover?

 

[Jerzey2222]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

It's interesting that when Throbak describes their pickups they describe A5 as having "prominent mids" or "mid dominant".

http://www.throbak.com/throbak-pickup-buyers-guide.html

That's the opposite of my own experience.

+1

 

[LtKojak]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

If anyone would like pics of the inside let me know. It's definitely different.

I'm interested.

 

[AlexR]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

It's interesting that when Throbak describes their pickups they describe A5 as having "prominent mids" or "mid dominant".

http://www.throbak.com/throbak-pickup-buyers-guide.html

That's the opposite of my own experience.

Jon has done work on getting the formulation of magnets has made for him for his pickups (and that he sells with those tonal descriptors) vintage accurate with regard to composition. One of the keys with tonal result in magnets is composition - and it has been noted many times with those working on PAF's closely that the old mags of the same 'grade' don't sound the same as newer ones. They don't charge the same way either.

Hence if you use only modern mags, I'm not surprised that the tone chart is different. I have a dual A5 p90 made from original 50's long mags. I would consider it pretty midsy too (although the mag is only part of the equation)

 

[Jerzey2222]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

Jon has done work on getting the formulation of magnets has made for him for his pickups (and that he sells with those tonal descriptors) vintage accurate with regard to composition. One of the keys with tonal result in magnets is composition - and it has been noted many times with those working on PAF's closely that the old mags of the same 'grade' don't sound the same as newer ones. They don't charge the same way either.

Hence if you use only modern mags, I'm not surprised that the tone chart is different. I have a dual A5 p90 made from original 50's long mags. I would consider it pretty midsy too (although the mag is only part of the equation)

Wow thats some fancy stuff.

I never knew old magnets where different than new magnets. So if he is making new magnets how the hell does make them like the old magnets? Isn't ALNICO just Alnico? Lol.

 

[Demanic]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

The alloys can be made from different blends.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[AlexR]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

Wow thats some fancy stuff.

I never knew old magnets where different than new magnets. So if he is making new magnets how the hell does make them like the old magnets? Isn't ALNICO just Alnico? Lol.

And then you add impurities etc etc. I think there is also a range for certain elements to still be called a particular grade. And the definitions could have been altered over the years too.

The levels which the old mags charge to is quite different. And I'd guess the field shape/size would alter as a result.

As you can imagine, to make something like the old ones you first destructively test old ones to find the composition. Then you approach companies that specialise in custom castings and get them to duplicate the findings of your test.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

to make something like the old ones you first destructively test old ones to find the composition. Then you approach companies that specialise in custom castings and get them to duplicate the findings of your test.

Today's is a much simpler process. Modern foundries have mass-spectrometers at their disposal, so destructive analysis is not needed. Then they'll adjust the annealing process to reproduce the old mag at a molecular level. And they don't even charge you a lot for the service, plus they keep record of your custom order, so you can have the exact same mag specs batch after batch.

HTH,

 

[AlexR]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

^ Even better. Probably just as accurate if not more for less $$ and or less destruction.

 

[Jerzey2222]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

Nice. Well I just got the Seth so I'll see how it does.

 

[Mincer]

Re: 59 (A4) vs Seth Lover (A4) vs Harmonic Design

The Seth is one of my favorite pickups (especially in the neck). Outside of high gain metal, it does everything really well. Love to hear how this turns out.