A cab size discussion...

[El Dunco]

It'd be interesting to hear how those record. I don't think Dime ever used them in the studio, did he?

That is a good question. It’s been said he used the Warhead on Reinventing The Steel. Stirling Winfield mentioned using a single SM58, but that could be per cabinet because using the full Warhead setup, you would have to due to the crossover. I believe he used the X2 in Damageplan. That on plays much nicer than the standard Warhead. People associate that Damageplan album with Krank, but while it’s possible to get that sound from a Krank, he didn’t have it yet. He didn’t really start using Krank until the awful tour that ruined everything. The X2 does sound fantastic though. It would be fun to compare one directly to the Krankenstein.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

That is a good question. It’s been said he used the Warhead on Reinventing The Steel. Stirling Winfield mentioned using a single SM58, but that could be per cabinet because using the full Warhead setup, you would have to due to the crossover. I believe he used the X2 in Damageplan. That on plays much nicer than the standard Warhead. People associate that Damageplan album with Krank, but while it’s possible to get that sound from a Krank, he didn’t have it yet. He didn’t really start using Krank until the awful tour that ruined everything. The X2 does sound fantastic though. It would be fun to compare one directly to the Krankenstein.

I'm pretty sure reading Damageplan was the Century or the RG100. He was back to the basics. I also read that on Damageplan, they were kind of over the whole midscoop everything to hell and back ethos. I do like Damageplan, TBH, except for the Nu Metal vocals and vibe at times. Or the lyrics that sound like a 13 year old wrote them, LOL.

But I know he used a lot more things in the studio that most people know. I think I remember reading either FBD or TGST had a little Wizard blended in. How unlike Dimebag, though. Those Wizards are kinda like the ultimate corksniffer heavy-ish amps.

 

[GuitarStv]

Isn't that Jim Lille? He seems to make good content. A lot of work goes into his stuff. He turned me off tonewood as a *decisive factor by itself* for guitar tone.

Yep. The amount of audio bullshit that he cuts through in those videos is astounding.

 

[beaubrummels]

Anyone wondering about speaker cab size and how it impacts tone should watch this video:

That guy's videos, while fun and interesting, are quite flawed, despite his attempt to be thorough and pseudo-scientific. He only called out certain things that to him constituted a "significant change" yet so many of the changes he made resulted in other significant changes, easily evidenced by the frequency plots he was showing. He also shows his ignorance and naiveté, for example not comprehending that ports are tuned to frequencies, which has been a known phenomena for almost as long as speaker cabinets have been made.

His other 'tonewood' video was laughable because he concluded that the wood in a guitar doesn't matter, but he 'proved' it by suspending the strings between two wooden workbenches that were able to hold the string tension.

 

[GuitarStv]

That guy's videos, while fun and interesting, are quite flawed, despite his attempt to be thorough and pseudo-scientific. He only called out certain things that to him constituted a "significant change" yet so many of the changes he made resulted in other significant changes, easily evidenced by the frequency plots he was showing.

Which plots specifically are you talking about? There's always going to be some minor variance in any two measurements taken . . . but I was hearing pretty much what he was, and the plots that I saw seemed to indicate similar.

He also shows his ignorance and naiveté, for example not comprehending that ports are tuned to frequencies, which has been a known phenomena for almost as long as speaker cabinets have been made.

He's questioning long held conventions and assumptions. I liked that he was able to incidentally demonstrate that port tuning was a legit thing through the testing. If he started out by assuming and not testing things about audio his tests would be far less valuable.

His other 'tonewood' video was laughable because he concluded that the wood in a guitar doesn't matter, but he 'proved' it by suspending the strings between two wooden workbenches that were able to hold the string tension.

The two workbenches were affixed to a concrete floor which was the only connection beneath them. Resonance from one bench would not have been transmitted to the other bench through a guitar 'body' as each bench was effectively isolated from the other. I think it was a pretty reasonable demonstration that resonance from wood doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot in the equation.

But some people will always hear what they want to hear - each to his own.

 

[Securb]

I think my bass player best summed up guitar cabs. He said All of my amps and cabs sound great but "The Marshall looks so cool on stage". All of the cabs we use are serviceable and the variances between them in most cases are negligible. No one in the audience is going to be able to tell the difference if I am using my 1x15 or my 4x12 Marshall. FWIW I practice with the Carvin and gig with the Marshall.

 

[beaubrummels]

The two workbenches were affixed to a concrete floor which was the only connection beneath them. Resonance from one bench would not have been transmitted to the other bench through a guitar 'body' as each bench was effectively isolated from the other. I think it was a pretty reasonable demonstration that resonance from wood doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot in the equation.

That's not how it works. Sustain and vibration are best when not lost into the guitar, so anchoring strings into significant sized tables of wood with concrete connecting them simply ensures the vibration stays in the strings, and doesn't prove much about the affect of wood in a guitar body. If the guitar wood is vibrating between the neck and body, that is lost vibration from the strings. It only works to reinforce vibration in the strings if the supporting wood or other materials vibrate in just the right sympathetic frequency with the strings. Stiffer, heavier woods and materials leave more of the vibration in the strings to pickup. The guitar doesn't have to be made out of wood, but how much vibration stays in the strings affects the resulting tone. I'd refer anyone to Les Paul's original railroad rail guitar and his log experiments.

But some people will always hear what they want to hear - each to his own.

I would posit all people hear roughly the same, but they listen differently. Those who are trained, are able to recognize what they are hearing.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I think my bass player best summed up guitar cabs. He said All of my amps and cabs sound great but "The Marshall looks so cool on stage". All of the cabs we use are serviceable and the variances between them in most cases are negligible. No one in the audience is going to be able to tell the difference if I am using my 1x15 or my 4x12 Marshall. FWIW I practice with the Carvin and gig with the Marshall.

Marshall cabs actually mic up great too. I guess the trashy construction is part of their sound. I love my 1960A with Greenbacks, but it hurts my eyes to even look inside. But it sounds glorious under the mic, so it's hard to argue with that.

 

[GuitarStv]

That's not how it works. Sustain and vibration are best when not lost into the guitar, so anchoring strings into significant sized tables of wood with concrete connecting them simply ensures the vibration stays in the strings, and doesn't prove much about the affect of wood in a guitar body. If the guitar wood is vibrating between the neck and body, that is lost vibration from the strings. It only works to reinforce vibration in the strings if the supporting wood or other materials vibrate in just the right sympathetic frequency with the strings. Stiffer, heavier woods and materials leave more of the vibration in the strings to pickup. The guitar doesn't have to be made out of wood, but how much vibration stays in the strings affects the resulting tone. I'd refer anyone to Les Paul's original railroad rail guitar and his log experiments.

Well yeah.

That's what he was proving - wood in a guitar doesn't really matter. Any material that doesn't wreck the vibrations from the strings will sound good. Basically you just need something with an appropriate measurement of material density and flex under tension.

 

[El Dunco]

I'm pretty sure reading Damageplan was the Century or the RG100. He was back to the basics. I also read that on Damageplan, they were kind of over the whole midscoop everything to hell and back ethos. I do like Damageplan, TBH, except for the Nu Metal vocals and vibe at times. Or the lyrics that sound like a 13 year old wrote them, LOL.

But I know he used a lot more things in the studio that most people know. I think I remember reading either FBD or TGST had a little Wizard blended in. How unlike Dimebag, though. Those Wizards are kinda like the ultimate corksniffer heavy-ish amps.

It might be Trendkill. Dime himself that FBD was three Centurys with different EQ settings that “sounded like sh!t individually but amazing when blended together.”​​​​​ Though he also said Trendkill was a bare-bones setup with the RG100 he used for the demos and kept. I haven’t been able to find a source of him blending with anything else.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

It might be Trendkill. Dime himself that FBD was three Centurys with different EQ settings that “sounded like sh!t individually but amazing when blended together.”​​​​​ Though he also said Trendkill was a bare-bones setup with the RG100 he used for the demos and kept. I haven’t been able to find a source of him blending with anything else.

I read that on Rig Talk, and those are the ultimate Wizard fanboys, so I'd take it as a grain of salt, LOL. It certainly doesn't sound like Wizard at all to me.

 

[Coma]

The 8x10 Ampeg style stuff I see seems to be more for clank bass, especially ones with aluminum cones, but I stand to be corrected by people who have more experience than I do.

My bass player has one of those cabs, hooked up to a Sun 300T. It can add clank when needed, but that's not a take-it-or-leave-it sound. Truth be told his rig sounds bloody amazing and puts a big dumb grin on my face whenever I hear it.
​

Marshall cabs actually mic up great too. I guess the trashy construction is part of their sound. I love my 1960A with Greenbacks, but it hurts my eyes to even look inside. But it sounds glorious under the mic, so it's hard to argue with that.

Can confirm. Played a gig where that one was part of the backline. I had only ever read bad things about the, how poorly constructed they are etc. But it sounded great. I wouldn't trade my cabs for it any day soon, but you could certainly do worse in a live situation.

 

[Inflames626]

Thoughts?

Also, all those bands and Suicide Silence have nearly the exact same logo.

https://www.facebook.com/p/Vader-Cabinets-Inc-official-100057865800888/

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Thoughts?

Also, all those bands and Suicide Silence have nearly the exact same logo.

https://www.facebook.com/p/Vader-Cabinets-Inc-official-100057865800888/

Supposedly, well-built, but the speakers sound like ass.

 

[Inflames626]

Supposedly, well-built, but the speakers sound like ass.

For a while there Vader had a cult following kind of like Fortin.

Which takes me back to Splawn also, which I thought was a stupid name because it made me think of the comic character.

https://splawnguitars.com/

 

[Rex_Rocker]

For a while there Vader had a cult following kind of like Fortin.

Which takes me back to Splawn also, which I thought was a stupid name because it made me think of the comic character.

https://splawnguitars.com/

Yeah, Vader were the flavor of the month with the Deathcore scene.

Splawn kinda stuck, though. I don't think Splaw are Metal-only amps. More of an 80's hot-rodded Marshall-y vibe than can sound great for Metal too. I would think you like them based on the amps that I know you dig.

I think the whole flavor-of-the-month vibe Splawn got at some point was because KSE were using them. But they were around before that too. And most of their models aren't even very KSE-sounding.

 

[80's_Thrash_Metal]

Speaker swap > cab swap. In my experience.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

And most of their models aren't even very KSE-sounding.

Actually, I take that back. I think they only have variations on two core models, the Quick Rod (the hot-rodded 800 one) and the Nitro (the scoopy/bassy/gainy amp KSE were using). Most of the other models derive from those, making them single/dual channel, different wattages, etc.

All solid boutique-quality amps with good beefy transformers and components. I wouldn't mind owning any of the models myself. They always came across like more of a hot-rod Marshall design that I'd dig (aggressive!) than Friedman (smooth and polite).

 

[Inflames626]

Actually, I take that back. I think they only have variations on two core models, the Quick Rod (the hot-rodded 800 one) and the Nitro (the scoopy/bassy/gainy amp KSE were using). Most of the other models derive from those, making them single/dual channel, different wattages, etc.

All solid boutique-quality amps with good beefy transformers and components. I wouldn't mind owning any of the models myself. They always came across like more of a hot-rod Marshall design that I'd dig (aggressive!) than Friedman (smooth and polite).

The prices aren't too bad for being a somewhat custom, individually made product.

 

[Inflames626]

Speaker swap > cab swap. In my experience.

This is great advice. My first concern with speaker cabs would be durability, size, and weight over tone. It's easier to find a speaker that fits a cabinet than it is to swap cabinets to fit around a speaker.