A cab size discussion...

Here's why I don't like a Recto sound by itself.

Admittedly they were going for a warmer, more vintage sound, but this album wasn't as well received. Not sure why they reissued it. It didn't need to be.

Low end is flabby and woofy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkGjKT3Jb-I&list=OLAK5uy_mUXiPi09CWJdkAp53li6gshQ2uMZR0dEg&index=3

vs. this which sounds thinner, tighter, and brighter with more upper mids:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-deRh1VGYA

Regarding Halo I hadn't heard the new record--I didn't think it was released yet.

It's not bad, but again, Niclas does the solo, and the tempo remains fairly slow. The pre chorus riff gets going for a while but then goes away for the sake of the main melody. By stripped down guitar parts I mean like at 0:55 where there's pretty much nothing interesting going on--again--to make room for the vocal.

The new Halo reminds me of DT's Misery's Crown off the top of my head. Just very mid tempo stuff, except the DT had more parts and melodies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02Plp_bDPPI

vs. in the older stuff it is slightly faster, busier, more intricate and energetic, mainly via the trills and the riff at 1:40.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI57bntD-rU

All of this comes back to the main point, I think, that Halo is music that is meant to be played live by two guitarists, so it is deliberately simplified to that end.

Going back to the Recto, Katatonia probably had one of the most crushing rhythm tones I had heard in a long time, and there I could actually here it was quad or even six tracked. A literal wall. II even get some Korn vibes from it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbdFkl7t2i8

And one of the most interesting drum parts I have heard is Soil's Song. Sounds like it has some polyrhythms going. Really intricate and difficult for doom metal, something that isn't the most technical genre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaNAKs5YS_M
 
zionstrat said:
Although his videos are interesting, they often have rather inaccurate conclusions. For example when he builds a telecaster running from one bench to another, he was claiming the wood didn't matter.

What he'd actually done is made a guitar out of two massive benches :-)

Edit-Just realized I'd missed this already covered earlier in the thread...
Click to expand...

Proving that it isn't about the tone wood, but the table wood. :)
 
Inflames626 said:
Here's why I don't like a Recto sound by itself.

Admittedly they were going for a warmer, more vintage sound, but this album wasn't as well received. Not sure why they reissued it. It didn't need to be.
Click to expand...

Even with a Recto and tuned to Bb, the bass and kick have their place no problem.


Same story here.


And here. Plenty tight.


Granted, I do not like them without a boost whatsoever. They can get tight, but even if they never get as tight as an ENGL Savage or a 5150III, the messy low-end is kinda part of their charm.

To me, and that's a very personal opinion, the Marshall 800 low-end is not all that tight. It's just less. And voiced higher. But 800's have a bright cap, meaning the more you raise the gain, the less low-end the input stage filters. Those amps have barely got any gain to them, so you have to really crank it to get it going for Metal, even with a standard Tube Screamer boost. So the more you crank it, the looser/more fuzzy the gain structure becomes.

That's 2203's, though. I'm sure 2210's have more gain going on.

I think Rectos have the bright cap as well. They have more gain than 800's, that's for sure, but they're not as high-gain as many might believe. They have got at least a gain stage less than 5150's. So they do benefit from using high output pickups and boosts with a hot output so that you can keep the gain knob low-ish.
 
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Rex_Rocker said:

Even with a Recto and tuned to Bb, the bass and kick have their place no problem.


Same story here.


And here. Plenty tight.


Granted, I do not like them without a boost whatsoever. They can get tight, but even if they never get as tight as an ENGL Savage or a 5150III, the messy low-end is kinda part of their charm.

To me, and that's a very personal opinion, the Marshall 800 low-end is not all that tight. It's just less. And voiced higher. But 800's have a bright cap, meaning the more you raise the gain, the less low-end the input stage filters. Those amps have barely got any gain to them, so you have to really crank it to get it going for Metal, even with a standard Tube Screamer boost. So the more you crank it, the looser/more fuzzy the gain structure becomes.

That's 2203's, though. I'm sure 2210's have more gain going on.

I think Rectos have the bright cap as well. They have more gain than 800's, that's for sure, but they're not as high-gain as many might believe. They have got at least a gain stage less than 5150's. So they do benefit from using high output pickups and boosts with a hot output so that you can keep the gain knob low-ish.
Click to expand...

Some great choices there. The Strapping should be blended with Marks like Devin used back then, and maybe even Stilettos. I liked the tone on Ocean Machine and City, especially Detox, better than here, but I think the lows are boosted here for effect, like at 1:28.

The Nevermore is the tone I like the least, and it's pretty much how I hear a Recto in the wild, especially if it's boosted less. Meshuggah I'm divided on because the way their music is done I am not sure to what extent things are manipulated with a gate and digital editing, similar to Fear Factory. I'd say the Behemoth is a pretty happy compromise.

This doesn't really count because, AFAIK, it was a Valvestate in 1996, plus it's tuned a lot higher to D standard, but it is a good reference for how I run and boost an 800 in my plugins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaNAKs5YS_M

Then again, a few decades later, way too woofy in Bb it sounds like. But industrial metal always kind of goes for a cheap, nasty guitar tone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qZUzEBwoJA

Maybe an odd choice for me considering it's mid 90s alt and has a Morrisey kind of sound, but it's pretty much what I hear as textbook boosted Marshall, and is pretty close to what I go for in a standard tuned guitar sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isO9VTj6lhQ

I dig Sakis's tone here. And the snare:

https://youtu.be/tcciFRZFDyY?t=815

Late 90s Napalm Death. Not sure what was being used here:

https://youtu.be/eel5yD9TKms

Trying to think of things I haven't cited before, but with what's possible in the studio even since the 80s it's hard to know. I could say something has a Marshall tone and be completely wrong, lol.

But yeah the Nevermore tone is pretty much what I avoid. Very much like the FNF era Soilwork.
 
Inflames626 said:
Some great choices there. The Strapping should be blended with Marks like Devin used back then, and maybe even Stilettos. I liked the tone on Ocean Machine and City, especially Detox, better than here, but I think the lows are boosted here for effect, like at 1:28.

The Nevermore is the tone I like the least, and it's pretty much how I hear a Recto in the wild, especially if it's boosted less. Meshuggah I'm divided on because the way their music is done I am not sure to what extent things are manipulated with a gate and digital editing, similar to Fear Factory. I'd say the Behemoth is a pretty happy compromise.

This doesn't really count because, AFAIK, it was a Valvestate in 1996, plus it's tuned a lot higher to D standard, but it is a good reference for how I run and boost an 800 in my plugins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaNAKs5YS_M

Then again, a few decades later, way too woofy in Bb it sounds like. But industrial metal always kind of goes for a cheap, nasty guitar tone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qZUzEBwoJA

Maybe an odd choice for me considering it's mid 90s alt and has a Morrisey kind of sound, but it's pretty much what I hear as textbook boosted Marshall, and is pretty close to what I go for in a standard tuned guitar sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isO9VTj6lhQ

I dig Sakis's tone here. And the snare:

https://youtu.be/tcciFRZFDyY?t=815

Late 90s Napalm Death. Not sure what was being used here:

https://youtu.be/eel5yD9TKms

Trying to think of things I haven't cited before, but with what's possible in the studio even since the 80s it's hard to know. I could say something has a Marshall tone and be completely wrong, lol.

But yeah the Nevermore tone is pretty much what I avoid. Very much like the FNF era Soilwork.
Click to expand...
That Meshuggah tone was before the Line 6 craze. It's as raw as a Meshuggah tone gets.

The "secret" to the Meshuggah tone is the TC Integrated Preamp. It's way harsher of a low cut than Tube Screamer. Hence why it tightens up a Recto a whole lot more. It works well for their Drop Z guitars and their djenty riffs, but I hate the TCIP for anything from B to higher up, personally.

I'm checking those tones! The Prong tone I always thought was an 8100, much like Death and Static X.
 
Also, if Soilwork was recorded on Studio Fredman, I'm pretty sure it's a 5150, not a Recto. Especially back then.

Unboosted 5150's can also get the 90's loose low end vibe. Even boosted 5150's can. Burn my Eyes comes to mind. The high-end is characterisitcally 5150, but the low-end is pretty big and slow compared to a modern 5150 tone, IMO.

The 5150 1, I mean. From the 5150II and on, they just made them tighter and tighter.
 
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I admit I will sacrifice guitar lows more than a more modern guitarist will, mainly so that the bass and kick all stand out against each other. I will also narrow the guitars kind of like Iron Maiden used to, mainly to make room for Steve.

I appreciate what the Katatonia tone tries to do, but it's not separated enough for my tastes. That said as a complete mix it's heavy AF.

Not sure it's a Marshall.

I never considered MH's BME to be that slow, heh. I think at the time I thought it was a pretty slick combination of thrash and groove metal tones, bridging the gap between 80s and 90s. I like that crispy top end. I knew later it was a 5150, but I liked the way it saturated better than 5150s on other albums. I hear some Peavey Triple XXXs/Ultras sound this way as well even though they were trying to copy a Recto with those amps.

Now once we got into Burning Red and Supercharger and they got the nu metal sound, that's when I heard more of what I consider a loose Recto sound. Around 2000 nu metal bands especially seemed to favor less preamp boost and fuzziness for the sake of a cleaner, chunkier sound.

Static-X paired with Prong is spot on. I think Wayne dug them, and I have as well ever since I was a kid. I could hear a lot of similarities in their music and, to some extent, Machinehead with all the pinch harmonics.

I actually kind of dug Rob Zombie's tone in Hellbilly Deluxe for that time/genre. I seem to remember Riggs pushing those Marshall MG solid state amps at the time. It sounded very Valvestate. On the album it sounds heavy like on Dragula but I'm not sure what they used.

Going back and listening to that man that tone hasn't aged well. It sounded a lot better in my head cranked loud in a car when I was in high school with guys who only listened to that stuff so I had to make do.

RZ is the only band I've seen where I liked the live show more than the music.
 
Rex_Rocker said:
Also, if Soilwork was recorded on Studio Fredman, I'm pretty sure it's a 5150, not a Recto. Especially back then.

Unboosted 5150's can also get the 90's loose low end vibe. Even boosted 5150's can. Burn my Eyes comes to mind. The high-end is characterisitcally 5150, but the low-end is pretty big and slow compared to a modern 5150 tone, IMO.

The 5150 1, I mean. From the 5150II and on, they just made them tighter and tighter.
Click to expand...

Fairly sure I remember Speed Strid saying they used Rectos, but I'm sure it changed every album and I'm not sure what album cycle this was. Probably Natural Born Chaos.

Wiki says only vocals and bass were recorded at Fredman, but who knows. In the early 00s all the bands were starting to go with different studios and producers than Nordstrom.

What throws my ear with a lot of SW too is my ear is expecting C standard and they were pretty much always in B standard. Some people online even tab their stuff out for 7s which was never their thing. They were using Caparison 6s back in the day.
 
Inflames626 said:
I never considered MH's BME to be that slow, heh. I think at the time I thought it was a pretty slick combination of thrash and groove metal tones, bridging the gap between 80s and 90s. I like that crispy top end. I knew later it was a 5150, but I liked the way it saturated better than 5150s on other albums. I hear some Peavey Triple XXXs/Ultras sound this way as well even though they were trying to copy a Recto with those amps.
Click to expand...
I guess what's different about the Machine Head 5150 sound is they use the Rhythm channel set to Crunch, they just run the gain high and boost them to get the saturation. So i guess that doesn't make it the typical Trivium/Bullet for My Valentine Emo-Core 5150 sound.

TBH, I think the 5150 can be made to sound in more ways than people usually give it credit for. Clayman sounds NOTHING like rEVOLVEr, even if both are literally the same amp and cab.

 
Rex_Rocker said:
I guess what's different about the Machine Head 5150 sound is they use the Rhythm channel set to Crunch, they just run the gain high and boost them to get the saturation. So i guess that doesn't make it the typical Trivium/Bullet for My Valentine Emo-Core 5150 sound.

TBH, I think the 5150 can be made to sound in more ways than people usually give it credit for. Clayman sounds NOTHING like rEVOLVEr, even if both are literally the same amp and cab.

Click to expand...

That's much closer to a sound I'd favor, but some might consider that thin compared to a Recto sound. I think I'd prefer Rectos blended with something else as opposed to on their own.

It's hard to describe it but where I hear the difference between a tone like this and a boosted Valvestate is 'where the fizz is." I feel like it's voiced higher in a 5150 style amp, leading to a lot of sizzle, whereas in a Marshall it's a little bit lower.

But we're kind of into semantics at this point. I talk about this stuff like I know what I'm saying when they could have used any amp in studio and my ear would tell me it was something other than what they actually used.
 
Inflames626 said:
That's much closer to a sound I'd favor, but some might consider that thin compared to a Recto sound. I think I'd prefer Rectos blended with something else as opposed to on their own.

It's hard to describe it but where I hear the difference between a tone like this and a boosted Valvestate is 'where the fizz is." I feel like it's voiced higher in a 5150 style amp, leading to a lot of sizzle, whereas in a Marshall it's a little bit lower.

But we're kind of into semantics at this point. I talk about this stuff like I know what I'm saying when they could have used any amp in studio and my ear would tell me it was something other than what they actually used.
Click to expand...

As you may know, I absolutely love blending amps in the studio. I’ve been commissioned to make super heavy metal bumper and outro music for a YouTuber client (I’ll reveal more about that when it’s all up and running.). I am absolutely loving my super tight “Demanufacture/Obsolete” sound from my JVM into the G12K in my 1960 cab pushed with my signature Cornhole.

I’ve been blending that with either my “secret weapon” Washburn “PG100,” basically a rebranded Randall RG100 but with an active mid contract and has a voicing more in common with a 5150 than a hot-rodded Marshall and doesn’t need nearly as much tweaking as Dime had to do on his Randalls.

The other guitar, I took inspiration from maug2122 rig using the Crate Powerblock and couldn’t help but notice that the Mesa Mark IV model on my Digitech RP1000 is AMAZING! It’s dynamic, tube-like and convincing (it doesn’t have any of the “plasticity” most of the others have, the Soldano model for instance while it has the syrupy EQ shape is VERY stiff sounding) that it’s worth the price of admission alone if you don’t want to hook up external preamps.

Running that into my MXR 10 band to fine tune (sounds a bit sweeter than the digital EQ in the digitech but I do give it the signature 750hz dip with that built in parametric for rhythm!) then driving the full voltage 2x12X7As of my Fulltone Echoplex (no echo, preamp only) with just the right amount of gain (not too fuzzed out but noticeably warmer, though fuzzing it out a touch is absolutely wild for leads, so cranking while backing off the preamp gain) which acts like a true tube power section into the clean Class D of the Powerblock.

You absolutely cannot tell it’s a digital model from 2011. They nailed the pre-gain tone stack so it can be as tight and absolutely liquid smooth as you like from Petrucci to Metallica. I have no idea how it’s so amazing in a way the other models mostly fall short, but blending it with a bit of real, meaty, huge Dual Rectifier and strategically emphasing the correct frequencies of each blended amp, a bit more subtle than fully bandpassing each amp, I also went for a simpler approach with one good close mic per appropriate speaker, plus a fig 8 pattern mic some distance away to strategically automate the level for very low and textural, to increasing the “size” in key moments but for the most part, I can expedite getting surgical phase coherency and each single mic’d speaker is blending very well.

I love moments like these when I know I’m really onto something with a fairly unique yet heavy and appropriate guitar sound. I can’t wait to show it all off! Waitng on some new bass strings, DR Hi Beams because I really want that lasting, bright, snarling tone and a replacement machine head bushing’s G&L promised me to come in the mail for the final piece of the puzzle

The work our drummer and I have done so far, being as exacting as I am with production plans and our awesome sounding new recording space, the raw tracks we’ve captured are already amazing. I’m super excited to release some behind the scenes, maybe a playthrough and maybe a stream with the YouTuber himself.

It’s really helped me break my writers block for my main band (Fragmenta) so I highly recommend anyone feeling the same to give a totality new project a try. The Mesa Mk IV Model is so tight and plays so well with the Dual Rec, zero boosting was required and the pick attack of the passive Lundgren M7 tuned down to A is apocalyptic! I’m so excited to add the bass. Even before any processing at all, the drummer’s playing and sound of his kit sounds absolutely gorgeous.

Sorry for rambling, I’m just so happy to be doing very meaningful work lately and it going so well. You’re all going to love it.
 
El Dunco said:
As you may know, I absolutely love blending amps in the studio. I’ve been commissioned to make super heavy metal bumper and outro music for a YouTuber client (I’ll reveal more about that when it’s all up and running.). I am absolutely loving my super tight “Demanufacture/Obsolete” sound from my JVM into the G12K in my 1960 cab pushed with my signature Cornhole.

I’ve been blending that with either my “secret weapon” Washburn “PG100,” basically a rebranded Randall RG100 but with an active mid contract and has a voicing more in common with a 5150 than a hot-rodded Marshall and doesn’t need nearly as much tweaking as Dime had to do on his Randalls.

The other guitar, I took inspiration from maug2122 rig using the Crate Powerblock and couldn’t help but notice that the Mesa Mark IV model on my Digitech RP1000 is AMAZING! It’s dynamic, tube-like and convincing (it doesn’t have any of the “plasticity” most of the others have, the Soldano model for instance while it has the syrupy EQ shape is VERY stiff sounding) that it’s worth the price of admission alone if you don’t want to hook up external preamps.

Running that into my MXR 10 band to fine tune (sounds a bit sweeter than the digital EQ in the digitech but I do give it the signature 750hz dip with that built in parametric for rhythm!) then driving the full voltage 2x12X7As of my Fulltone Echoplex (no echo, preamp only) with just the right amount of gain (not too fuzzed out but noticeably warmer, though fuzzing it out a touch is absolutely wild for leads, so cranking while backing off the preamp gain) which acts like a true tube power section into the clean Class D of the Powerblock.

You absolutely cannot tell it’s a digital model from 2011. They nailed the pre-gain tone stack so it can be as tight and absolutely liquid smooth as you like from Petrucci to Metallica. I have no idea how it’s so amazing in a way the other models mostly fall short, but blending it with a bit of real, meaty, huge Dual Rectifier and strategically emphasing the correct frequencies of each blended amp, a bit more subtle than fully bandpassing each amp, I also went for a simpler approach with one good close mic per appropriate speaker, plus a fig 8 pattern mic some distance away to strategically automate the level for very low and textural, to increasing the “size” in key moments but for the most part, I can expedite getting surgical phase coherency and each single mic’d speaker is blending very well.

I love moments like these when I know I’m really onto something with a fairly unique yet heavy and appropriate guitar sound. I can’t wait to show it all off! Waitng on some new bass strings, DR Hi Beams because I really want that lasting, bright, snarling tone and a replacement machine head bushing’s G&L promised me to come in the mail for the final piece of the puzzle

The work our drummer and I have done so far, being as exacting as I am with production plans and our awesome sounding new recording space, the raw tracks we’ve captured are already amazing. I’m super excited to release some behind the scenes, maybe a playthrough and maybe a stream with the YouTuber himself.

It’s really helped me break my writers block for my main band (Fragmenta) so I highly recommend anyone feeling the same to give a totality new project a try. The Mesa Mk IV Model is so tight and plays so well with the Dual Rec, zero boosting was required and the pick attack of the passive Lundgren M7 tuned down to A is apocalyptic! I’m so excited to add the bass. Even before any processing at all, the drummer’s playing and sound of his kit sounds absolutely gorgeous.

Sorry for rambling, I’m just so happy to be doing very meaningful work lately and it going so well. You’re all going to love it.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see your Batcave/Fortress of Solitude/Stark Industries lab. :)
 
Studio A located in a rural compound. I will try and get a panoramic shot because it’s very difficult to capture the whole studio in one photo. It’s a bowling ball lane long, three lanes wide.

IMG-0310.jpg


IMG-0267.jpg
Not pictured, full rack of outboard interfaces, compressors and tape machine.


IMG-0477.jpg


Studio B while it was under construction which is now complete at the back of my drummer’s property.

IMG-0809.jpg


And one of my secret weapons, either recording to tape and then sending it back into the project at 48khz (all you need to keep the tape mojo intact) or recording out from digital to tape, then recording back into the project from tape. The preamp on the tape machine is bypassed for a studio quality one as the consumer grade standard really doesn’t cut it haha but this gives me that awesome low mid warmth and searing, aggressive yet smooth highs I love so much from recording to tape printing in the seeet spot between mild colouration and all out tube/tape saturation!

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pet6...5-34.mov?rlkey=lrx2rqtaxkaz6kn1kupehtxvd&dl=0
 

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I linked the wrong video for the tape machine in action and it will not let me fix it without erroring out, though it’s a lovely raw drum mix from a client’s drum tracking session that shows off how good the space is for acoustic drums. HERE is the tape machine video. If a mod can replace the DB link with this I would appreciate it because I spent a long time making that post to have to delete and start again…


https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/uilm...4-40.mov?rlkey=2p80576pi4e504my85339tnwf&dl=0
 
I'm almost embarrassed to post to anything to you now. I am impressed. Good job on the acquisitions!

But...is that an Ibanez Tone Blaster? That takes me back...
 
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