A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

[super rad stuff]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

:smack:
Ok, let's try this again
P-H-A-T C-A-T
That is what you want!
And if you also want HB tones, just get a PG bridge PC neck...

phat cats hum less, but don't growl as hard as actual p-90s unless you do a bit of tweaking with the magnets and such

 

[oilpit]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

phat cats hum less, but don't growl as hard as actual p-90s unless you do a bit of tweaking with the magnets and such

But IMO they are the best HB sized P90
I'm not much for the others, except maybe the GIbson one...

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

But IMO they are the best HB sized P90

same here

 

[Micah]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

Ok, greenbacks but will I blow them in a 2x12 cab with a 50 watt head? I know they're 25 watt but I think I could cook them. What is a higher watt option?

And on those P-90's, which offer the best sound with least amount of hum?

Along the same lines I once sent an email to Celestion asking them about 4 greenbacks powered by a 100 watt head and if I had anything to worry about. Afterall, most of the old 100watt marshalls were designed to run full stacks or a 200 watt handling capacity for 100 watts of power. Their response to me was that there was no risk of blowwing 4 greenbacks with 100 watts of amplifier.

LP- P90's will hum. Bottom line. If your looking for the least amount of apparent hum you want to go with a more vintage wind. Because hotter pickups amplify sound "louder" you'll hear it more in the amp. Kind of like when you turn your gain up on your amplifier. It starts to hum as well.

I think its important to remember that Hum is not necessarily a bad thing. After-all the trade off is to cancel out some musical frequencies in the process of trying to cut down on the radio waves in the air which are apparent through your amp. The only time you are going to hear this hum is when you stop playing, so because of that you can work on controlling your guitar volume knob to compensate for that.

Lets be honest, even humbuckers hum under high gain..... But because of our mindset that "Hum-buckers" cancel hum we write it off because we dont know any better. Just play what sounds good. If you really like the way something sounds then you will make adjustments to pave the way for that sound.

I have found that when I use a pickup that is doing what I want it to, I use considerably less gain and I have a better, clearer sound becauser of it and it still has the breakup and punch that I wanted to try to get with the gain knob. The ironic thing about that is that less gain equals less hum whether the pickup "hums" or not. I really dont find it a problem with P90's.

Also, with the great punch of these pickups you'll find that your volume knob is allot more usable and you can get a great crunchy, growly sound even with the guitar volume knob on 2 or 3. Because of this, you have less hum, and its nice to know that the breakup only gets better the louder you turn the volume up.

 

[Micah]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

:smack:
Ok, let's try this again
P-H-A-T C-A-T
That is what you want!
And if you also want HB tones, just get a PG bridge PC neck...

I agree. This way you dont have to pay someone to route your guitar for 90's.

 

[The Usual]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

If you don't want to route your guitar, just get Phat Cats or P-94s. Listen to the people.

In the end though, you can skin a cat many ways, as demonstrated by this thread. You can make almost any pup growl with the right rig.

V30s are not scooped, and Chinese greenbacks are good. Very good. Don't believe the tripe. From someone who has played half of them, don't get Scumbacks for growl. They do some things great, but in my experience, they are way to creamy and mushy to get you the growl I think you are after. Especially when you are pushing them.

 

[CaughtLikeFire]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

V30s are not scooped

agreed. focus is more on the upper mids than the Greenbacks but they are far from scooped

and Chinese greenbacks are good. Very good.

not buying the "very good". maybe just personal taste or maybe I didn't spend enough time with them, but after getting to mess around with a vintage Marshall cab loaded with original Greenbacks, the Chinese reissues are just . . . meh.

Don't believe the tripe

the Celestions made in China are not all junk - some people go overboard with generalizations. overpriced for sure. cheap baskets, yes. cone and spider are still British (and maybe the voicecoil?) so it's not like they're that much different from the ones made in England back in the 1990s.

From someone who has played half of them, don't get Scumbacks for growl. They do some things great, but in my experience, they are way to creamy and mushy to get you the growl I think you are after. Especially when you are pushing them.

my experience with Scumbacks is limited (loved the hell out of them though - really blew me away). I'll take your word for it since you've spent more time with them

 

[dvadneau]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

A lot of positive comments about the PhatCats. Anyone care to comment on the P-Rails as an alternative? Will they get LPClassic the growl in the P-90 position?

I just installed (last night) PG in the bridge and 59 in the neck of my Epi Les Paul Ultra II (chambered). I've only had a chance to play through my preamp and headphones but so far they rock. I was worried about the PG being trebly from comments in the HC reviews, but I don't hear it. There is some treble but I would definitely not classify them as trebly. The 59 is nice - second best neck pickup I've used (I really like the Evo I had in there).

I'm still leaning toward getting P-Rails because of the P-90s and then being able to add a humbucker sound. I have Duncan Designed P-90s in my Squier Tele Custom II and they're decent for some punk/rock stuff I play.

Are P-Rails an option for the P-90 growl?

 

[LPClassic]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

Hey all, I am at work and just checked the forum. WOW!! Really appreciate all the help here.

So, I am thinking of getting the greenbacks at 25 watts because of the breakup and growl and it looks like as long as I dont hit 11 on the 50 watt that I wont blow them.

Would 2 g12M's be better than say a g12M & g12h combo in an open backed 2X12 for growl?

 

[Micah]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

Hey all, I am at work and just checked the forum. WOW!! Really appreciate all the help here.

So, I am thinking of getting the greenbacks at 25 watts because of the breakup and growl and it looks like as long as I dont hit 11 on the 50 watt that I wont blow them.

Would 2 g12M's be better than say a g12M & g12h combo in an open backed 2X12 for growl?

The M's will break up just a bit sooner because they have the medium sized magnet in them (M) for a 25 watt handling capacity. The G12H's have a slightly bigger magnet in them causing them to stay a touch cleaner for longer, resulting in a bit more bottom end, but still the same cone design (30 watt handling capacity). Personally I prefer the M's, but I am all about mid-range growl. The added bottom end (to my ear) covers up the mid-range growl a bit more. Ultimately they are pretty much the same speaker tho..

BTW-Im not affiliated with them in any way, but I dont think you will find better Celestion speaker prices than Avatar. They are not only cheaper but also quick and very helpful. I suggest you check them out.

 

[blueman335]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

I have found that when I use a pickup that is doing what I want it to, I use considerably less gain and I have a better, clearer sound becauser of it and it still has the breakup and punch that I wanted to try to get with the gain knob.

+1. That's why its worth getting high-quality PU's and doing any tweaking necessary to get your magic tones. The better your tone, the better you'll play.

 

[The Usual]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

and Chinese greenbacks are good. Very good.[/B]

not buying the "very good". maybe just personal taste or maybe I didn't spend enough time with them, but after getting to mess around with a vintage Marshall cab loaded with original Greenbacks, the Chinese reissues are just . . . meh.

Well, that's like comparing a new LP Custom, to one that's 30 years old, and saying that Gibson Customs are just meh. (maybe this is a bad example ;-) Hell yes, I'll take the old one, I'll take the vintage version of just about anything. But in terms of new speakers, the Chinese regular greenbacks are very good speakers IMO. I have been through a lot of speakers in the last 3 years, and for all they hype around the new players in the market doing their best imitation of Celestions, and Celestion doing imitations of their own vintage stuff, I personally think that celestion still sets the standard for guitar speakers. And, I think that the Chinese Ms get overlooked. My guess is that 30 years of playing on a new G12M will result in a pretty stellar sound.


From someone who has played half of them, don't get Scumbacks for growl. They do some things great, but in my experience, they are way to creamy and mushy to get you the growl I think you are after. Especially when you are pushing them.

my experience with Scumbacks is limited (loved the hell out of them though - really blew me away). I'll take your word for it since you've spent more time with them[/QUOTE]

I tried really hard with them. Jim is a great guy, and he makes a great product, just not for me. They were just too complex in the middle and mushy when pushed. At lower volumes they are great, and I love that they sound old right out of the box. Just too complex for me. But I have only ran into a couple of others out in the forums that feel this way. Everyone else seems to love them.

 

[Thunder]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

On those speakers I guess you mean G12M's not g12H's??? Or would either do?

I like the pearly gates neck but bridge is thin and twangy, right?

Yeah G12m's. IMO the PG has some bite and sizzle,not thin. Just listen to BG.

 

[Chrismo]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

The PG bridge definitely has a bite. I am liking the suggestion of a Phatcat neck and PG bridge...maybe the custom shop could put together an Alnico V Phatcat? Call it the Madcat or something

I've been planning on a PC/CC pairing in a strat sometime.

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

The PG bridge definitely has a bite. I am liking the suggestion of a Phatcat neck and PG bridge...maybe the custom shop could put together an Alnico V Phatcat? Call it the Madcat or something

I've been planning on a PC/CC pairing in a strat sometime.

i bet you could get a floorshop custom a5/a5 phat cat as it's just a different of magnets, though don't quote me on that.

 

[Chrismo]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

i bet you could get a floorshop custom a5/a5 phat cat as it's just a different of magnets, though don't quote me on that.

I think so too, at least I thought I heard about this...

 

[Micah]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

I bet it would be cheaper to just swap the mags yourself......

 

[LPClassic]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

Wouldn't that phat cat hum like crazy alone with no other phat cat to balance it?

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

no. i use one in the neck pos. of my SG and the only time it really hums is when i'm close to a tv or too close to my amp, though so do all my humbuckers. phat cats don't really hum that much unless you use laughable amounts of distortion, which isn't the case most of the time.

 

[Chrismo]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

Wouldn't that phat cat hum like crazy alone with no other phat cat to balance it?

I've never heard of uncontrollable noise with a Phat Cat, and most often you're probably not going to use the midway noiseless tone for a lot of things (or maybe you will - most people either hang out at the neck or bridge).

I think you'll be fine.