Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

I am lucky I guess because I am not picky at all on a guitar's setup when I first pick it up. Sure, after a while (like a few weeks) it'd get annoying, but I would have set it up by then. When I try guitars, if I can tune them that is enough and I'm generally satisfied. If it is acoustically dead, not that big of a deal to me. Some of the best songs were made with the worst gear.

But ones that sound alive kick ass.
 
Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

I am lucky I guess because I am not picky at all on a guitar's setup when I first pick it up. Sure, after a while (like a few weeks) it'd get annoying, but I would have set it up by then. When I try guitars, if I can tune them that is enough and I'm generally satisfied. If it is acoustically dead, not that big of a deal to me. Some of the best songs were made with the worst gear.

Set-ups include intonation and neck bow, or lack of it. Yes, we all (even you) are 'picky' about set-ups, because if the frets buzz and the tuning is off all over the neck, then it's very unlikely anyone is going to take that guitar home. You can't tell what it really sounds like because teh strings can't ring out; you can hardly play it. And those two deal-killers are things that can be adjusted in a matter of miuntes.
 
Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

Set-ups include intonation and neck bow, or lack of it. Yes, we all (even you) are 'picky' about set-ups, because if the frets buzz and the tuning is off all over the neck, then it's very unlikely anyone is going to take that guitar home. You can't tell what it really sounds like because teh strings can't ring out; you can hardly play it. And those two deal-killers are things that can be adjusted in a matter of miuntes.

Well yeah there is just a point where a guitar is unplayable, but for the most part I don't need everything to be exact. Like I know perfect intonation everywhere is impossible on a fretted instrument, so I just accept it and get as close as I can. I can deal with low action, high action, it really doesn't bother me. Same with fret buzz. As long as it isn't coming through the amp, I'm fine. The only thing I can't stand is dead frets, but those are less common, and are usually because of a TERRIBLE or no setup, or uneven frets which can be fixed.
 
Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

Rip out your toggle switch and put some screen over it. I've heard that really makes them have nice acoustic properties.
 
Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

One thing I always do when i'm looking at buying a new guitar is to grab the headstock, and strum all the strings. I find that the ones that resonate more at the headstock have a better sound when plugged in.
 
Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

If my speaker cabinet has a good acoustic sound when I hit it does that mean it will sound better when plugged into an amp?
 
Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

Wanted to follow up on this. Guess the guitar needed a break in period. Never really heard of this on an electric guitar, but the more its played, the better its sounding and the more open sounding it is and sustain is better. Odd, but true. I was getting very close to returning it for fear it was dead. But, I just started playing it more and the plinkiness of the tone has gotten warmer and all. Looks like a keeper now!!
 
Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

Sorry man but I think you are fooling yourself...

I can't imagine that 3 months has made ANY difference at all...now, there is no way for you to prove your opinion nor is there a way for me to prove mine but 90 days can not make any difference in guitar.

When you talk about guitars aging it's something thing takes place over decades of real use night after night after night, not a few weeks sitting on a stand in a living room getting a total of a few hours play time.
 
Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

Yep, never quite heard of an electric "breaking in" that quickly, but I've got a funny feeling it's the strings (bright and zingy when first installed and then mellowed out after hammering away on them for hours). As long as it sounds good though, who am I to judge? Glad to hear you're digging the guitar now BloodRose. :)
 
Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

Many guitars with bad resonance suffer from poor maintenance. Especially guitars in stores that are there for months and played a lot, there's all kinds of gunk on the strings. I think in this case there's not much to say, most of the stores or second-hand sellers won't risk the price of a fresh pack of strings just so you could at least consider buying it.

If a fresh pack of strings doesn't do it, there are several ways to evaluate the problem. You could have loose frets or loose fingerboard (worst); loose bridge parts, like saddles, even too much play on bushings where the posts screw in; too tiny or cheap alloy tremolo block; bad fit on the neck pocket/heel; improper nut slot depth or nut fit; improper neck angle; too much relief in the neck or the truss completely loose; whacky action etc. If you do a little of practical geometry you get the picture how these things work together.

But sometimes it's poor manufacture. A few weeks ago I worked on a custom hand-made guitar (3k price range) that had a poor neck angle. To get proper action the tremolo baseplate was sticking out almost half an inch from the edge of the cavity + the cavity was 1/4'' deep, this was in fact so high I couldn't even get the pups high enough. Because the neck was pulled backwards the truss rod was almost completely loose too. With negative angle (when the neck tilts back like on a violin) and low action the relief is less affected because the neck becomes more rigid as it is tilted negatively in relation to bridge position. The bridge height caused the trem springs started rubbing against the cavity. After shimming the neck, the overall sound improved (both plugged/unplugged) and bridge was sitting low enough, but the trem cavity was still too shallow putting springs at an angle.
Bridge profile (hi or lo) greatly affects how the neck angle should be set, just compare an LP and a Strat. Of course you cannot change the neck angle on a any kind of glued tenons without delicately butchering the guitar, but it is often done on acoustics which suffer from shoulder collapse, glue separation and bellying.

You can play around with these a lot, but some factors like inferior wood or improper bookmatching cannot be resolved. These things aren't done the way they are just for looks. Any carpenter can make beautiful guitars, but they might not be functional at all. Giving a tone to the guitar is like carving a wooden toy, if you don't carve enough it's still just a blank, but if you carve too much it'll be just a pile of shavings.
 
Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

To everybody that for some reason still believes acoustic tone means nothing (but ironically enough will often still obsess over wood and hardware selections ad absurdum )

Coat your guitar in truck bed liner or rubberized automotive undercoating and get back to me on how it sounds ;)

Sounds harsh, but after having this discussion every 2 months for 20 years and constantly biting my teeth out on the armor of ignorance, I just can`t take the topic or the people that believe acoustic tone is irrelevant seriously anymore. :beerchug:

An acoustically dead instrument with no sustain is supposed to sound huge and have tons of sustain amplified? How exactly do you get the guitar to believe that the string that stopped vibrating 10 seconds ago is still vibrating so as to shake the pickup in the proper fashion as to induce the same electric current that the vibrating string would normally produce? Becasue where ther is no vibrational energy, it must be added, either by technical means (fernandes Sustainer or Ebow) or by more tradidional means such as picking. Otherwise there is no note.

The entire system is based on transfer and return of energy. We pick a note, transferring energy to the strings, this transfers it tio the body, which returns it to the strings. This is what produces sustain, the opposite being decay. An acoustically dead instrument returns less energy to the strings "per cycle" and therfore runs out of energy to transfer and return more quickly, killing sustain /speeding up decay. An acoustically lively instrument manages the energy much more efficiently, allowing for a stronger return and longer overall cycle = more sustain.

Please note that lively is not necessarily = loud. That is why even luthiers use the ear to the neck or ear to the body test when they really want to know what it sounds like. I prefer the body becasue by modulating the pressure I can get a bit of an impression how some different PUs might sound in that guitar. ;)

If acoustic tone is irrelevant, I hereby hypothesize that Blue`s disdain for strats and their brighter tone has no basis in reality, nor do all discussions referring to any non electromagnetic component of the electric guitar. Pickups, pots, caps and strings, that`s all an electric guitar is. Oh, yeah, wires, a jack, and sometimes a battery.

If acoustic tone is irrelevant, a Tremolo cannot "suck tone" (still the most asinine phrase in the entire industry and will always be, practically disqualifies the speaker instantly from being taken seriously on any topics related to gear for at least a few hours, with repeat offenses bringing rising levels of ridicule until one reaches Level 10, "Leprechaun" :laugh2: ), and different nut materials, scales, body styles, headstock shapes, wood selections, fretwire selections, et al are ALL completely irrelevant tonally.

I cannot for the life of me understand how somebody could truly believe that, yet still minutely argue aspects of the instrument`s construction or prefer one guitar over another. :boggled::friday:

As every classically trained luthier I`ve ever met has said: ALL guitars are acoustic. Some use an air filled box for amplification, others use electric amplifiers. But even electrically amplified poo is still poo, it`s just much louder and has distortion, now. ;)
 
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Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

My perception is that the bigger sounding ones are better

It is not as simple as that. Some guitars are loud unplugged and have that blooming resonance. But radiating sound does not prolong sustain; think about energy conservation. Some solid bodies are pretty quiet and tight acoustically but just that does not make them dogs yet. What I found out recently, was that out of two similar Dean MLs, the one with a plain mahogany body was louder and fatter sounding while the one with a maple top was quieter but also tighter and more defined. I preferred the second one by much, both unplugged and amplified.

To me, judging a solid body guitar by its acoustic tone, is all about the "tonal color", the proportions and speed of individual harmonics, the overall clarity and balance, rather than volume. It's about telling dark/mellow/thick from muddy, bright/jangly/sparkling from thin/brittle, and tight from dead. It's tricky to explain in words and next to impossible to quantify or measure, but I think it's something you start to have a feel for, once you've played a hundred or two decent guitars.

I definitely agree the more resonant bodies can be picky b****es when it comes to pickup matching. Patience pays off usually.
 
Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

Sorry man but I think you are fooling yourself...

I can't imagine that 3 months has made ANY difference at all...now, there is no way for you to prove your opinion nor is there a way for me to prove mine but 90 days can not make any difference in guitar.

When you talk about guitars aging it's something thing takes place over decades of real use night after night after night, not a few weeks sitting on a stand in a living room getting a total of a few hours play time.

Could be temperature and humidity changes. Definitely not playing though.
 
Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

If it sounds good unplugged, it should sound good plugged in. A bad or weak sounding unplugged one can only be improved so much with pickups and amplification.


Thats how i feel about it too.

I can buy an electric without ever plugging it in (if i have too) because 8-out-of-10 times, i'm gonna ditch the stock pu's anyways.
If the guitar feel and spound good (...unplugged) to me, i know it will do the trick.
 
Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

...all kinds of truth...

Couldn't agree more. I'm shocked by the number of people saying acoustic properties don't matter. I never even plug guitars in when trying them at the store. 1) they don't have my rig at the shop, and 2) I can learn all I need to know about a guitar from its unplugged sound.
 
Re: Accoustic tone of an electric guitar?

Couldn't agree more. I'm shocked by the number of people saying acoustic properties don't matter.

Not that acoustical properties don't matter, but that it's often given a mystical reverence, and not always understood. A guitar's setup is a factor that's often not taken into account. I'm saying with the intonation off, neck back bow, fret buzz, and old strings, few guys can't predict what a guitar would sound like after those issues were fixed. And those can usually be corrected in a matter of minutes. I think most guitars get purchased because they have a set up the buyer likes. He strums it, unplugged or amplified, and he likes the sound. They pat themselves on the back for having picked 'the best one in the store' but the playing field's not level. If every guitar there had a good set up and new strings, the choice gets a lot more complicated. When a lutheir selects a guitar, he knows what to look for. I trust their judgement. If Zerb says 'Buy this one, it's a very good specimen', I'll buy it. When average guys makes their choices, including those that judge them on the acoustical sound, I don't have much confidence that they really know what they're doing. How many do the 'ear to the neck' or 'ear to the body'?

Obviously wood is a big factor in the final sound, or else we wouldn't spend so much time trying to dial in our tones with an assortment of PU's, pots, and magnets. Some woods sound better than others. Some of that can be compensated for, some of it can't. The point I'm trying to make is that of the many guys who pride themselves with purchasing 'the best sounding guitar in the store', few are actually able to do it. There's a big difference between being able to pick great tonewoods, and thinking you can.
 
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