Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

I was under the impression that even if some guys have gotten a little uppity on this forum, most of us are aware each post represents the opinions, thoughts or beliefs of the poster. I have lurked here for almost 10 years now and Lew is without a doubt one of the more seasoned members who tends to give universally valuable advice when he chimes in. If we study his posts in this thread alone, what I got from his words was, "I have tried 250k pots with humbuckers and I don't like them, they always sound wrong." Whether or not anyone who reads his posts takes the time to imagine that Lew's words come from his own experience and tastes, is another matter entirely. I didn't get a single shred of arrogance from his posts. I don't think every post needs to end with "IMO", "IME", "YMMV", or another disclaimer to avoid the poster being read as partisan. And I also don't see the value in using hearing loss/aids as a point of argument because it seems to me he can still hear the extra treble and tonal difference that comes with 500k pots. What a silly way to throw the thread off-course.

I briefly experimented with a 250k volume pot in my Schecter with the JB/Custom hybrid. I found while it did sound smoother and a bit fatter, it took away some of the grind that I really like with this pickup and a 500k pot. From clean sounds on the edge of sparkly breakup to metal madness it was just lacking that extra sizzle that I've come to expect and really enjoy from my C-1 Classic, so I threw the 500k volume back in after a week. Sure, I could have spent more time playing with my amp settings, trying to use my FatBoost to compensate for the minor differences, but it came down to the feel for me and I didn't gel with it quite the way I expected to. I have yet to try a 250k pot + humbucker in a bolt-on guitar though. Perhaps I'll feel differently.
 
Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

Lewguitar said:
All right Bluesman, put up or shut up. Here's me doing Hideaway
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Sorry Lew, not really interested in hearing you play. It really has no bearing on the validity of your sweeping condemnation of 250K pots; 250K pots being the topic of this thread. Don't really see how you any of your playing proves that 250K pots are tone killers for other players. Missing that connection.

I've managed to learn all I have here over the years without listening to anyone's clips or videos, and there's no real reason for me to start now. I try people's ideas and see if they'll work for me. If you need clips to help figure this stuff out, fine, I don't. When I want to listen to music online, I don't come here for that.
 
Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

Metalman_666 said:
I briefly experimented with a 250k volume pot in my Schecter with the JB/Custom hybrid. I found while it did sound smoother and a bit fatter, it took away some of the grind that I really like with this pickup and a 500k pot.
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The difference being I never call 500K pots on bridge PU's 'wrong' or claim they're 'tone killers' on other people's guitars. They can do what they want; I just want people to know that they have options. For some reason a few guys consider it to be blasphemy to even discuss it in polite company. Don't know what you've seen, but there's been some pretty colorful blows ups here over the years over 250K's, and Lew's behavior at times has not been what you'd expect from an elder statesman. So my background on this topic may be different than yours.
 
Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

blueman335 said:
Imagine that you don't know what I do. And that goes for how I EQ my guitars and amps, what string gauge I use, and the type of picks. All of that impacts my tones. I don't turn my guitar volume 'down to two', ever. Nor would I expect to get much treble if I did. I have no idea what you do or sound like, nor do I speculate on it. What are you, 'Son of Lew', who knows what everything sounds like without actually hearing it?
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No, this part of it is not subjective: you can't infer that using 500k pots is equivelent to turning up the treble on your amp, or that using 250k pots is like turning it down, because the amp EQ is in a very difference location in the circuit than the guitar's volume pot. There are things like pedals, guitar cables and any amount of amp circuitry setting them apart, so when you say you choose not to turn your amp's treble up, or even if you did, I don't see what relevance that has to the issue of volume pots.
 
Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

grumptruck said:
500k brought new life into my cool rails neck.
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I haven't tried cool rails, but I find 500k especially important for the Duncan mini humbuckers as they seem darker than full sized models. I like them and have a lot of them, but they need all the help they can get, including a steel or brass trem block in order to preserve as many highs and as possible.
 
Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

Lewguitar said:
I get the feeling that most guys here do use an overdrive pedal most of the time and always have. And I see now that if you're using an overdrive pedal all of the time that the 50's Mod wiring might not be appropriate.
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I'm glad you said this because I did 50's wiring to my Telecasters and couldn't figure out why people were praising a mod that put out that much brightness. I use OD pedals for the variety, but I'll have to see how it sounds strictly with the amp drive channel before undoing it.
 
Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

blueman335 said:
Sorry Lew, not really interested in hearing you play. It really has no bearing on the validity of your sweeping condemnation of 250K pots; 250K pots being the topic of this thread. Don't really see how you any of your playing proves that 250K pots are tone killers for other players. Missing that connection.

I've managed to learn all I have here over the years without listening to anyone's clips or videos, and there's no real reason for me to start now. I try people's ideas and see if they'll work for me. If you need clips to help figure this stuff out, fine, I don't. When I want to listen to music online, I don't come here for that.
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So you're not willing to share your playing with us?

Well...that is a pity.
 
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Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

Lewguitar said:
So you're not willing to share your playing with us?

Well...that's a pity.
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I'm flattered by your interest, but posting clips is not really a priority of mine. Do you really think I have any interest in hearing you play, and that will somehow convince me to yank the 250K's out of my guitars and replace them with 500K's? I'm not sure how your mind is working here. Or is this 'whoever's the better player is right on pot values'? God forbid, what if I am; are you going to put 250K's in your HB guitars. Can't connect the dots in your logic.

I know some great players down here, and some of them have no idea what PU's are in their guitars ('the stock ones'). So you really can't have an intelligent discussion with them about PU's, pots, magnets, and alternative wirings. They could post some incredible clips, but have no clue about the mods we do. Then there's guys that are whiz's at electronics and mods, that are so-so players; but these guys have a lot of credibility on what we talk about. So whatever your skill level, it's not really the thing to fixate on, proud as you may be of yourself. It's the ideas and whether they'll work for you, and everyone can pick what they want. I don't need to hear you play with 500K's Lew; I've tried them and don't like the way they sound on most of my bridge PU's. Just not my thing. Too bright and thin for my tastes. I encourage people to try both pot values and decide for themselves. I just want people to know they have options. I have no earthly idea why over the years here, that has unleashed a torrent of anger and personal insults by some members.
 
Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

If Jimmy Page or EVH said they used 250K pots with their humbuckers in an interview today, half this forum would have them in their guitars tomorrow. Just saying.

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Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

To the OP, just remember that all this **** people are getting into here is over something that really doesn't make much difference anyhow. Pot value does make a tonal difference, but it isn't as if it's a night-and-day difference. Almost any amp can adjust for the differences between pot values, and if not that, then an outboard e.q. can...and certainly any number of studio techniques, if you're talking about recording.
 
Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

ItsaBass said:
To the OP, just remember that all this **** people are getting into here is over something that really doesn't make much difference anyhow. Pot value does make a tonal difference, but it isn't as if it's a night-and-day difference. Almost any amp can adjust for the differences between pot values, and if not that, then an outboard e.q. can...and certainly any number of studio techniques, if you're talking about recording.
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I gotta disagree with that - to me it is a dramatic difference.

And if you throw away the little treble that a humbucker has ("little" as compared to a Fender single coil) by using 250K pots, it's not really possible for an amp's tone controls to bring that treble back.

I suppose you could boost whatever treble's left in the audio signal by cranking the amp's treble control, but the tone probably wouldn't have the same character as if you hadn't sent that treble to ground in the first place.

I think. I guess I'm theorizing a bit. :lmao:
 
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Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

Lewguitar said:
I gotta disagree with that - to me it is a dramatic difference.

And if you throw away the little treble that a humbucker has ("little" as compared to a Fender single coil) by using 250K pots, it's not really possible for an amp's tone controls to bring that treble back.
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Quite honestly I am sick of arguing with people on this board. Lew have you ever considered some of us dont want a trebelly tone? My tone is in the low mids, I can't stand HIs I think they are brash and harsh. But that is just me and my 250Ks take just enough of the brightness of for me. It isn't thrown away if you didn't want it in the first place - Live and let live buddy.
 
Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

Securb said:
If Jimmy Page or EVH said they used 250K pots with their humbuckers in an interview today, half this forum would have them in their guitars tomorrow. Just saying.

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Not at all..I trust my instincts,my years of playing and my own ears to decide what works best for me..Plus not everything we read about some of these musicians is accurate,especially regarding EVH!
 
Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

Facepalm. Really this was not a debate about 250k pots, which almost never measure 250k anyway, vs. 500k pots which almost never measure 500k.

Ok so:

"Can't you approximate the effect of a 250k pot by just turning down the volume ever so slightly?
"

NO. For two reasons. One, a volume pot is NOT a rheostat. The load the pickup sees to ground does not change. It is wired to the hot lug, and the hot lug is not soldered to the wiper as it would be in a rheostat. Second, when you turn a pot down, it introduces a series resistance into the equation, i.e. the resistance between the hot lug and the wiper. So when you turn a 500k pot down to about 7.5, which if it's an audio pot would be about 250k from wiper to ground, the pickup still sees 500k, and there is a 250k resistor now in series with your pickup's output on the way to the amp. Not at all the same as a 250k pot turned up all the way.

I use various resistors across pots which I have measured to get a resistance I want. That goes from about 200k all the way up to 1M or more. Various pickups in various guitars sound better with different resistances. PAFs to my ear generally sound like icepicks with anything approaching 500k. 225-300k works much better. JB? Most guitars like them between 250 and 400k. Hotter, darker pickups generally need closer to an actual 500k MEASURED resistance (not just the number on the casing which means F all). On neck humbuckers, I use 1M religiously unless they are unusual types like 40ga wire, firebirds, etc.

So, since I've actually done this more times than I can count, including wiring guitars so each pickup selector switch position sees a different resistance, I'm NOT asking whether anyone thinks it's "ok" to do that.

I'm simply asking if anyone has ever tried it with THOSE SPECIFIC pickups. Obviously, no one here has.
 
Re: Anyone tried 250k volume with ......

Securb said:
Quite honestly I am sick of arguing with people on this board. Lew have you ever considered some of us dont want a trebelly tone? My tone is in the low mids, I can't stand HIs I think they are brash and harsh. But that is just me and my 250Ks take just enough of the brightness of for me. It isn't thrown away if you didn't want it in the first place - Live and let live buddy.
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Lighten up..It's all about opinions and nothing more..We use what works for us and in our situation.
 
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