Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

[Jeremiah]

So, not another modeling vs tube question, but...

Do you think that the sounds, dynamics, response etc of a modeler is close enough to the 'real thing' that it gives a good indication of which real amp I would like most.

For example, if my favourite amp sim on a Pod etc is the AC30 model, then is it likely that my favourite real-life amp would be some kind of AC30 or clone? (Aside from the fact that I'd probably never get to turn up a real AC30 loud enough to get close to the sounds I can get from a modeler...)

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

No. The sim is not the amp. And the amp will sound drastically different just by the way it excites the room. Sims are nothing like a real amp, no matter how much wishful thinking gets thrown about. Best to either locate and play the amp in person, or trust to your gut and blind chance.

 

[dominus]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

No. The sim is not the amp. And the amp will sound drastically different just by the way it excites the room. Sims are nothing like a real amp, no matter how much wishful thinking gets thrown about. Best to either locate and play the amp in person, or trust to your gut and blind chance.

Actually, sims are meant to give you what the *recorded* tone sounds like. Recorded tone sounds nothing like an amp either.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Actually, sims are meant to give you what the *recorded* tone sounds like. Recorded tone sounds nothing like an amp either.

Never heard that and don't believe it for a second...

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

No. The sim is not the amp. And the amp will sound drastically different just by the way it excites the room. Sims are nothing like a real amp, no matter how much wishful thinking gets thrown about. Best to either locate and play the amp in person, or trust to your gut and blind chance.

Best info you'll get on the subject...

 

[Ball&Chain]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Never heard that and don't believe it for a second...

I've heard it described that way. It might not apply to all modelers, but the Yamaha THR modelers for example are the most recent example.

 

[sixstringsamurai333]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I disagree strongly.

The current generation of modellers are finally coming into their own, and I believe that they CAN give you a very good ballpark idea of what kind of amps you may like.

However, the caveat is that modellers are often made to be like the original amp, but more manageable - so be aware that if you like the sound of an AC30, or a Plexi, the REAL amp may get those tones (and probably better) BUT this can come at the cost of volume controllability and so on.

 

[Psykel]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I more or less only used the AC30 setting on my Vox VT15. Sounded great for a cheap modelling amp. Recently got a real AC30 and I'm not disappointed.
If you like the sound of the AC30 setting in your Pod, I doubt you'll dislike the sound of a real AC30. Just try one out and see for yourself.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

When you get rid of the tubes, specific circuit, and even more importantly, The Output Transformer, you have basically ripped the heart out of the amp.
My experience with "modelers" has been that their settings for Vox, Dumble, Marshall, etc. are just a Marketing tool. The settings could just as easily have been labeled A-B-C-D.
Suffice it to say, I have probably only heard 3%-5% of those types of amps.
good luck

 

[Securb]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I disagree strongly.

The current generation of modellers are finally coming into their own, and I believe that they CAN give you a very good ballpark idea of what kind of amps you may like.

I agree with SSS and TO. No I would not buy a AC30 based on the fact I like the sound on a modeler. But the modeler can give you a reference point on where to start shopping and which amps to try.

Best to either locate and play the amp in person

Once you hear a few sounds you like start shopping. Make sure you bring your main guitar with you. That Les Paul or PRS in the showroom might sound drastically different through the amp than what you typically play.

 

[LesStrat]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I think it can direct you to the type of amps to test drive. I'll second bringing your own guitar.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I think modelers are good at showing someone who may not have experience playing every tube amp out there which ones they should try.

So, if you turn the dial and find yourself liking the Dual Rec, Bassman 410, and AC-30 more than the others, it's at least pointed you in the direction of those 3 to go try out. You may find out that the real amp doesn't reach the gain levels that the modeler did at bedroom level, but that's something you'll need to find out for yourself.

Most likely, you'll play the real tube version of the amp and see how much bigger and more dynamic it is.

 

[jimman]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I will say this you may very well like a tube amp if you like the amp models of it, but dont look past an amp just because you didnt like the models of it. I never have found a Bogner anything but I have never tried an actual Bogner amp that I didnt like.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Even if the sim would sound like the amp in question....modelers do not have the feel and response of a tube amp....my very humble 2 cents.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I think modelers are good at showing someone who may not have experience playing every tube amp out there which ones they should try.

Agree completely. The Line 6 amp that I owned in 2000 taught me a lot about amps I might like/dislike. The Soldano models in particular led to my purchase of a few amps built/designed by Mike.

Even if the sim would sound like the amp in question....modelers do not have the feel and response of a tube amp....my very humble 2 cents.

You're hanging out with the wrong modelers.

In terms of feel, the "good stuff" these days (and there's more than one device in that category) holds its own with great tube amps and frankly is much better than a lot of the tube amps I've played/owned. That's coming from a guy who gave up his Two Rock and Rivera to go digital.

You're welcome to disagree but that's my opinion and I came by it honestly.

 

[Diego]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I'd say yes, but with a big objection. It's not that simple.

You see, a real-world Triple Rectifier can sound like a buzzy piece of crap, or marvelously fat and crunchy, depending on the way it's setup.
Tubes, bias, cabinet, speakers, the guitar, the guitarist, etc.

Most modelers will give you a 'reference' sound of the amp, of the way it's supposed to sound.
Some modelers let you tweak everything but most don't (Guitar Rig lets you change the bias of amps even but who knows if it's accurate?) so you get the Vanilla sounds mostly.

Which means most Triple Rectifier models sound like **** IMO. Despite a real Triple Rectifier being inmensely tweakable,
as I experienced personally when recording with one in a studio last year.

Modelers can't show you all the possibilities of what YOU could eventually get out of that particular amp. They lack that palette.

So I'd say yeah, it could help you get an idea of what you might like or not. But it would be just that, an idea, a blind shot.
You'd still have to go to shops and try some real amps, which is fun. So just do that instead.

 

[James Rock]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Seeming you specified the AC30 then I will talk about that specifically. On vox modellers I find they are close and can sound kinda like an AC30 although usually way brighter. I use Amplitube alot to record and the AC30 model sounds good but when playing feels nothing like an AC30 in the ballpark tone wise but the response is different, so take that in consideration but I would say the real one sounds better and feels better the only thing is recording one in a bedroom at good volumes is alot harder to get right then using modelling.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I don't see the harm in letting your experience with modelers point you in the direction of real amps that you might like. The opposite of this doesn't make sense to me; it's like saying that, since a photograph isn't a person, you can't tell anything about what a person looks like by seeing a picture of them.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Yes and no. Depends on who made the models. You see, Line 6 used to have a treadplate model which they claimed was the sound of the Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier, but in actual fact it was actually more along the lines of their take on how it should sound ideally. Since, they have two separate models. They've renamed that one to the "line 6 treadplate" and have a more authentic treadplate model separate.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I found my taste for blackface cleans when I had the super champ XD (hybrid but still modeling), now I have a deluxe reverb reissue.
So yes I think modeling amps can point you in the right direction or introduce you to flavors.