Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
- Thread starter Jeremiah
- Start date
Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
Not every AC30 is the same thing... recent reissues SUCK, while at least some of the older ones were truly legendary. Got to try an old one and it was godly. Tried a new reissue, with a very similar guitar, and it sucked. Tried a lot of other guitars into it - STILL sucked.
Not like total suck worse than anything, but compared to the original? Can't hold a candle to it.
Not every AC30 is the same thing... recent reissues SUCK, while at least some of the older ones were truly legendary. Got to try an old one and it was godly. Tried a new reissue, with a very similar guitar, and it sucked. Tried a lot of other guitars into it - STILL sucked.
Not like total suck worse than anything, but compared to the original? Can't hold a candle to it.
Filipe Marquez
New member
Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
I only tested my own amp so far (Laney LC-30 II), and have a PODxt, and what i can tell you is that the modeler does carry the same caracteristcs of a real amp in tone, specially when the amp is played in small volumes, but it obviously doesnt sound as good.
Other points i'd point is that yes, the POD is supposedly to sound like a recorded sound, hence the manual button it has.
All in all, my personal suggestion is have a place where you can crank it up your amp to a minimum volume, because the most frustrating thing is to have a real tube amp in a bedroom with a 12" speaker and have to play with a POD. :/
I only tested my own amp so far (Laney LC-30 II), and have a PODxt, and what i can tell you is that the modeler does carry the same caracteristcs of a real amp in tone, specially when the amp is played in small volumes, but it obviously doesnt sound as good.
Other points i'd point is that yes, the POD is supposedly to sound like a recorded sound, hence the manual button it has.
All in all, my personal suggestion is have a place where you can crank it up your amp to a minimum volume, because the most frustrating thing is to have a real tube amp in a bedroom with a 12" speaker and have to play with a POD. :/
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
I'll say that a good modeller is close enough to point you at the type of amp you like best (e.g. Fender BF combo, high gain head).
Beyond that, you really need to try the actual amp to be sure. It will not sound exactly the same. In some cases, it may not even be close.
There's also the fact that lots of great amps aren't modelled by anyone. My current and previous main amps (Mark V and Stiletto Ace) can't be found in any modeller that I know of.
Source: years and years of experience with many tube amps and modellers.
I'll say that a good modeller is close enough to point you at the type of amp you like best (e.g. Fender BF combo, high gain head).
Beyond that, you really need to try the actual amp to be sure. It will not sound exactly the same. In some cases, it may not even be close.
There's also the fact that lots of great amps aren't modelled by anyone. My current and previous main amps (Mark V and Stiletto Ace) can't be found in any modeller that I know of.
Source: years and years of experience with many tube amps and modellers.
Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
In the past i've used a few peavey vypyrs, and i currently use the iphone ampkit with headphones on occasion.
Both of which give you a decent basis for comparison of how the modeled amps behave in real life, BUT there are sooo many factors you have to consider before taking the amp model as an example of the real amp.
- The preamps may sound similar to the real-life amps, but the power section reacts very differently at various volumes. Neither modeler recreates these manerisms realistically.
- the ampkit app has cab, mic, and mic location simulators. They are good for getting an array of sounds, but the only thing it models is RECORDED sound.
- the vypyr only includes 2 channels of some 3-channel amps or excludes certain controls of the actual amp completely. Not to mention, the noise surpressor makes a fizzy hissy noise when playing lightly, making soft picking or clean tones useless.
So yes, a modeling amp is good for getting an idea of which all-tube amp you plan to purchase, but you still need to test the real-life amps with your axe before making your decision.
In the past i've used a few peavey vypyrs, and i currently use the iphone ampkit with headphones on occasion.
Both of which give you a decent basis for comparison of how the modeled amps behave in real life, BUT there are sooo many factors you have to consider before taking the amp model as an example of the real amp.
- The preamps may sound similar to the real-life amps, but the power section reacts very differently at various volumes. Neither modeler recreates these manerisms realistically.
- the ampkit app has cab, mic, and mic location simulators. They are good for getting an array of sounds, but the only thing it models is RECORDED sound.
- the vypyr only includes 2 channels of some 3-channel amps or excludes certain controls of the actual amp completely. Not to mention, the noise surpressor makes a fizzy hissy noise when playing lightly, making soft picking or clean tones useless.
So yes, a modeling amp is good for getting an idea of which all-tube amp you plan to purchase, but you still need to test the real-life amps with your axe before making your decision.
Filipe Marquez
New member
Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
I think you may actually get a better idea of how an amp sounds through You Tube tests or records. That is the ACTUAL recorded sound. Modelers are great sometimes, in my opinion, but they're for a whole other purpose. It's like they sound good enough to replace an amp in most amateur or even professional situations, but they should serve as a new option, not as a direct replacement.
I think you may actually get a better idea of how an amp sounds through You Tube tests or records. That is the ACTUAL recorded sound. Modelers are great sometimes, in my opinion, but they're for a whole other purpose. It's like they sound good enough to replace an amp in most amateur or even professional situations, but they should serve as a new option, not as a direct replacement.
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
I can't disagree more. 99% of Youtube demos sound like hammered ****.
I can't disagree more. 99% of Youtube demos sound like hammered ****.
FuseG4
Our Neighbor Totoro
Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
when I have decent headphones on and I have a video that someone made at least halfway decently, I think they sound like crap but in a way that you can still get a good idea about what you're hearing. C'mon 99% has got to be a little bit exaggerated right?
PGS' DRRI video literally sounds like a stock drri to me. I can tell it has nice warm round bass, no mids, sweet highs and sounds a little ratty when cranked. I can tell the trem channel is higher gain. it gave me a great indication of when the amp would break up and with what general texture, and how washy the reverb can get. When I bought a DRRI I knew what I was getting into before playing it, and playing it in my hands confirmed most of what I expected to hear. The only big surprise was the effect of the bright cap which I have banished
plenty of pedal vids from PGS and others match what I've gotten from pedals.
There were few surprises when I got my les lius home cuz I'd seen the vids. Same thing with the crunch box, blues driver, mxr distortion III, the dyna comp, the carbon copy... I think the videos out there characterize these pedals pretty decently.
when I have decent headphones on and I have a video that someone made at least halfway decently, I think they sound like crap but in a way that you can still get a good idea about what you're hearing. C'mon 99% has got to be a little bit exaggerated right?
PGS' DRRI video literally sounds like a stock drri to me. I can tell it has nice warm round bass, no mids, sweet highs and sounds a little ratty when cranked. I can tell the trem channel is higher gain. it gave me a great indication of when the amp would break up and with what general texture, and how washy the reverb can get. When I bought a DRRI I knew what I was getting into before playing it, and playing it in my hands confirmed most of what I expected to hear. The only big surprise was the effect of the bright cap which I have banished
plenty of pedal vids from PGS and others match what I've gotten from pedals.
There were few surprises when I got my les lius home cuz I'd seen the vids. Same thing with the crunch box, blues driver, mxr distortion III, the dyna comp, the carbon copy... I think the videos out there characterize these pedals pretty decently.
Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
hardly.... 95% is a realistic estimate.
hardly.... 95% is a realistic estimate.
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
Using PGS as an example that YouTube demos are good is like using Eminem as an example that rappers are white.
when I have decent headphones on and I have a video that someone made at least halfway decently, I think they sound like crap but in a way that you can still get a good idea about what you're hearing. C'mon 99% has got to be a little bit exaggerated right?
PGS' DRRI video literally sounds like a stock drri to me. I can tell it has nice warm round bass, no mids, sweet highs and sounds a little ratty when cranked. I can tell the trem channel is higher gain. it gave me a great indication of when the amp would break up and with what general texture, and how washy the reverb can get. When I bought a DRRI I knew what I was getting into before playing it, and playing it in my hands confirmed most of what I expected to hear. The only big surprise was the effect of the bright cap which I have banished
plenty of pedal vids from PGS and others match what I've gotten from pedals.
There were few surprises when I got my les lius home cuz I'd seen the vids. Same thing with the crunch box, blues driver, mxr distortion III, the dyna comp, the carbon copy... I think the videos out there characterize these pedals pretty decently.
Using PGS as an example that YouTube demos are good is like using Eminem as an example that rappers are white.
FuseG4
Our Neighbor Totoro
Filipe Marquez
New member
Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
Exactly! You - the other guys - are exaggerating. You know that with professional headphones you can imagine well how the amp will sound in front of you, or at least get a grip of it.
Exactly! You - the other guys - are exaggerating. You know that with professional headphones you can imagine well how the amp will sound in front of you, or at least get a grip of it.
Filipe Marquez
New member
Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
Chill man, i'm not nervous. You're right, if he's using a camera recording, DEPENDING on the camera it will sound horrible, but at least for the amps i searched i always found clips to them, even if on the manufacurer's site (suck as Vox and Mesa). The others i don't know, but there aren't many amps laying around for it to be impossible to find one microphone recording of that amp.
Even the Blackstar HT-1 has it.
Chill man, i'm not nervous. You're right, if he's using a camera recording, DEPENDING on the camera it will sound horrible, but at least for the amps i searched i always found clips to them, even if on the manufacurer's site (suck as Vox and Mesa). The others i don't know, but there aren't many amps laying around for it to be impossible to find one microphone recording of that amp.
Even the Blackstar HT-1 has it.
Filipe Marquez
New member
Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
I don't know, you go and write "I dont care if you have $1000000 headphones.". No need to exaggerate, lol.
I don't know, you go and write "I dont care if you have $1000000 headphones.". No need to exaggerate, lol.
Drunken Bowling
New member
Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
Hey if you don't mind me asking, what digital amp(s) do you use? I just sold my umpteenth tube amp and I'm thinking the only way to get a good sound at a low volume in my apartment is to get a good modeler. Right now I'm looking at the Yamaha thr series. I'm also looking at swapping pickups (right now using PRS 245's) to Bare Knuckles. I'm wondering if the pickup swap would make much of a difference in sound when using a modeler.
Hey if you don't mind me asking, what digital amp(s) do you use? I just sold my umpteenth tube amp and I'm thinking the only way to get a good sound at a low volume in my apartment is to get a good modeler. Right now I'm looking at the Yamaha thr series. I'm also looking at swapping pickups (right now using PRS 245's) to Bare Knuckles. I'm wondering if the pickup swap would make much of a difference in sound when using a modeler.
Shadow1psc
New member
Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?
You can make a modeler sound like just about anything recorded. In fact, some specialize in being able to take an isolated guitar track and give you the exact same sound. Here's where the disconnect is: Volume. If you're planning on playing at bedroom levels, your tube amp is going to be very sad, and so are you. A modeler with a decent transparent preamp will get you where you want to be. If you're looking to actually play out loud, that's where you can start being concerned with physical tube amp sounds, and your mileage will vary. Not as greatly as some may mention, there's a reason why certain amps are synonymous with certain tones, but how loud you can crank and the area you crank it in are going to be key factors in determining if the amp will give you the sound you want.
I'll also say that even with a good modeler, you may not get the sound you expect out of the amp it is supposedly simulating. I absolutely despise every attempt at a Mesa tone that anyone tries to do. John Petrucci uses Mesa amps nearly exclusively, and I find myself getting very accurate Mesa-Petrucci sounds from even a POD X3, but definitely not by using their 'Treadplate' attempts (yes I realize he uses the Mark series, but a real recto gets very close too). Additionally, there is a HUGE MEGA DIFFERENCE between the ways you can use your modeler. Headphones vs. PA vs. Pre-amp+Cab will give you very different results.
So, when it comes down to it, as many have said, the modeler will get you into the ballpark of amps to try, but you'll definitely want to try the range of them.
You can make a modeler sound like just about anything recorded. In fact, some specialize in being able to take an isolated guitar track and give you the exact same sound. Here's where the disconnect is: Volume. If you're planning on playing at bedroom levels, your tube amp is going to be very sad, and so are you. A modeler with a decent transparent preamp will get you where you want to be. If you're looking to actually play out loud, that's where you can start being concerned with physical tube amp sounds, and your mileage will vary. Not as greatly as some may mention, there's a reason why certain amps are synonymous with certain tones, but how loud you can crank and the area you crank it in are going to be key factors in determining if the amp will give you the sound you want.
I'll also say that even with a good modeler, you may not get the sound you expect out of the amp it is supposedly simulating. I absolutely despise every attempt at a Mesa tone that anyone tries to do. John Petrucci uses Mesa amps nearly exclusively, and I find myself getting very accurate Mesa-Petrucci sounds from even a POD X3, but definitely not by using their 'Treadplate' attempts (yes I realize he uses the Mark series, but a real recto gets very close too). Additionally, there is a HUGE MEGA DIFFERENCE between the ways you can use your modeler. Headphones vs. PA vs. Pre-amp+Cab will give you very different results.
So, when it comes down to it, as many have said, the modeler will get you into the ballpark of amps to try, but you'll definitely want to try the range of them.
