Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Modelers can't show you all the possibilities of what YOU could eventually get out of that particular amp. They lack that palette.

I'm with yah here this is ultimately why I didnt keep the Kemper. The way an amp responds when you turn the gain down or the tone controls is not sufficiently modeled at all settings. Its better to make separate models for each setting than to try and tweak settings.

 

[dominus]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I'm with yah here this is ultimately why I didnt keep the Kemper. The way an amp responds when you turn the gain down or the tone controls is not sufficiently modeled at all settings. Its better to make separate models for each setting than to try and tweak settings.

Actually, the problem with the Kemper is that it doesn't model tone controls at all. You get a single snapshot of one person's settings on an amp through their cab and mic position, but then you tweak it using the Kemper's controls and get farther and farther away from the original sound in a linear fashion. I sold my Kemper for the same reason.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

No. To me, a modeler is a good way to half-ass tones that you are already familiar with, solely for convenience in non-critical situations...say for purposes of bedroom playing or quick demos. They're just not a good way to figure out what an amp you've never played is like.

I'd try finding the closest store that has a large selection of new and old amps, and just spend a day in there trying all of the basic categories: tweed Fenders, black-faced Fenders, CBS Fenders, Fender Hot Rods, '60's Marshalls, '70's Marshalls, '80's Marshalls, '60's Ampegs, '70's Ampegs, old Oranges, new Oranges, Sunns, old Voxes, etc. Then IMO you should make sure you return the favor by actually buying from them, and not just using them as a showroom, then buying from Musician's Friend.

 

[Securb]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I don't see the harm in letting your experience with modelers point you in the direction of real amps that you might like. The opposite of this doesn't make sense to me; it's like saying that, since a photograph isn't a person, you can't tell anything about what a person looks like by seeing a picture of them.

Pigbacon nailed it, close the thread. Well said sir.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Yeah, it definitely makes more sense for a new player to run out and buy at least 22 or maybe 40 highly sought after, discontinued, and collectable amps, each costing a small fortune, plus about 30 effects pedals than it is to start with a modeler like a Vox Valvetronix until you know which sounds you find useable. I mean, sure, you'd spend several hundred thousand on about two thirds of that gear and never use it, since it is not the sound/tone you are looking for, but that sure beats spending around 400 dollars to have a pretty decent replica of ALL of that gear. Furthermore, Vox has sold millions of their Valvetronix amps precisely because they sound absolutely nothing like any tube amp ever created. I know I sit around all the time saying to myself, "god, I love how this Vox sounds absolutely nowhere near anything like a real Marshall JCM800". "I wish I had a real JCM800 so I could spend thousands having it hot rodded then crank it to get its true tone so my ears would bleed." "I just love to constantly troubleshoot real tube problems, and try to keep a 3 or 4 decade old amp in good working condition, especially when it comes time to re-tube it, and it costs as much as a decent modeling amp just to buy the tubes"

To be serious for a moment though, what you are asking is how I found almost all the true tube amp and pedals I own. I bought one of the blue faced Valvetronix amps when they first came out years ago and it gave me a really good idea of which amps I do and do not like, and which pedal I will and will not use. Even with 5 real tube amps sitting on my floor, I still play my newer, cheaper Vox VT40+ a lot. It is just so much easier to fool with, and despite what people say, doesn't sound too bad especially if you edit your own sounds. You've got two dozen or so amps and twice that many effects and a tuner with none of the hassles of running stomp boxes, tuners etc, and all at bedroom volume.

 

[IM4Tone]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I don't see the harm in letting your experience with modelers point you in the direction of real amps that you might like. The opposite of this doesn't make sense to me; it's like saying that, since a photograph isn't a person, you can't tell anything about what a person looks like by seeing a picture of them.

Pigbacon nailed it, close the thread. Well said sir.

Agreed!

Many newer modelers give a good (not perfect) representation of the 'real thing'. Just be sure to try the one that you become interested in, either at the store, or preferably with the option to return it for a full refund in 30 to 45 days.

The one area that isn't quite the same IMO is volume. Often the tube amp, especially if it has considerable power, needs to be LOUD to achieve what the modeler can simulate at lower volumes.

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Check out some of Pete Thorns vids where he A/Bs his Suhr and Friedman amps with his AXE FX impulses of those same amps in real time. Just awesome. It will 100% answer your question for you. Fractal gear is exciting IMO.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Pigbacon nailed it, close the thread. Well said sir.

It's well said, but not accurate nor true. A model is no more a 'photograph' of an actual guitar amp than my mediocre drawings are akin to an actual photograph!

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I took my Cube 30 over to my friends house who owns a 70's Twin Reverb
he had been curious about them for some time

he is of the same opinion,
it is no match for the Twin

but then he switched it to the blackface model
and he just gushed
he was all " oh my god, I gotta have one"

he has informed me that the day that I come to retrieve it
a one legged man with attempt to kick my A$$

are they as dynamic as a real tube amps
no
at full volume in a club competing with the other instruments, will anyone notice?
no
maybe if everyone else stopped playing and you took a 3 minute lead break?
umm..... probably still no



but they do sound good at wife-approved levels

for sampling the different flavors of amplification
they are great

pigbacon is correct
they will let you sample many different flavors in a small box

you shouldnt buy an amp based on the model
but the models should give you an idea of which amps you may want to try

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

This seems to have hi-jacked into another tube amp vs. modeler thread, except I don't think that's what the OP was asking. He was asking if a modeler is close enough in approximation to give him an idea which tube amps might be more his style to look into further based on the modeler representation.

The answer is simply, yes.

You can listen to the difference between a tweed and a recto on the modeler and get a pretty good idea if you'd prefer to go tweed shopping or recto shopping. It didn't require arguing over the same old tube vs. modeling; that's a different thread.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Let's face it, the thread was titled with a good amount of troll bait to incite either a) a guaranteed healthy exchange rate of ideas b) a guaranteed argument on this obvious hot topic. I don't think this thread has been anything BUT civil and all sides are being presented. I do not think it has gone off track at all.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Re-read the original post; it went off track with the first reply (exciting the room has nothing to do with - can the modeler give me a clue why kind of amp I might like)

I didn't say it wasn't civil, I said rather than answer the guy's question it took off (predictably) on modeler vs. tubs, like always.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

These threads always get off track but at the end of the day it is most often going to come down to a matter of opinions...

In many of your opinions a modeler is close enough to the real amps to use as a point of reference to the tone of a real amp...in my opinion that is not correct and it makes me really question those of you that say it is.

No one can say which camp is right or wrong but it never stops being a source of entertainment to watch people trying to decide who the winner is...

I will just say this...if you as a player have played real amps like tweed Fenders, plexi Marshalls, 6 input AC30's, etc and have also tried those patches on various modelers and really believe that they have much if anything in common sonically then save yourself a lot of time, trouble and money and just use modelers.

To me I have yet to hear a modeling amp or device of any kind that really sounded that much like any of the amps it was set to model...and it's no way in the world close enough to decide if I like the real amp or not.

I always remind people of one very important thing...Just because you can't hear a difference doesn't mean that there isn't a difference...

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I want to add that I am not anti modeling gear...they can be useful, helpful and very powerful tone generating tone tools but to me and to my ears they bare little in common with the amps they are said to model...

 

[jumble jumble]

Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

...which is not an answer to the question in the OP.

 

[jumble jumble]

Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

...which is not an answer to the question in the OP.

Actually my bad - I misread the post. Apologies.

 

[dominus]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

These threads always get off track but at the end of the day it is most often going to come down to a matter of opinions...

In many of your opinions a modeler is close enough to the real amps to use as a point of reference to the tone of a real amp...in my opinion that is not correct and it makes me really question those of you that say it is.

No one can say which camp is right or wrong but it never stops being a source of entertainment to watch people trying to decide who the winner is...

I will just say this...if you as a player have played real amps like tweed Fenders, plexi Marshalls, 6 input AC30's, etc and have also tried those patches on various modelers and really believe that they have much if anything in common sonically then save yourself a lot of time, trouble and money and just use modelers.

To me I have yet to hear a modeling amp or device of any kind that really sounded that much like any of the amps it was set to model...and it's no way in the world close enough to decide if I like the real amp or not.

I always remind people of one very important thing...Just because you can't hear a difference doesn't mean that there isn't a difference...

You also said this in another thread:

This was my first thought but if you are serious I have to ask...

Why use an OD with a Mesa...MK I's have plenty of gain if you dial in 'em in right.

So your tastes and opinions are definitely your own.


I'll say it again. Modelers are meant to give you what the amp sounds like *recorded*. That's the whole point of them having different speaker cabinets that are emulated. They're emulating a mic'd up cabinet. Turn off the cabinet modeling, hook it up to a *tube* power amp and a cabinet, and then it will *feel* like a real amp.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

It's well said, but not accurate nor true. A model is no more a 'photograph' of an actual guitar amp than my mediocre drawings are akin to an actual photograph!

You know what? I do care. I've liked every JCM-800 model I've ever tried, and I'm going to try some real ones out for my next amp, based on my experience with those models -- particularly the one I'd used playing loud into my JCM-900 cabinet. Does that mean I'll like the way a real JCM-800 head responds? That's the point of trying the amp. I'm going to have to do a little looking to find any that I can go play through in my area, but I consider it worth it. That's the point of starting with a model I've liked as opposed to the ones that I haven't.

 

[xntrick]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I have a 3120 and I've tried the 3120 model in Revalver and I was surprised how similar it was. From what I hear the next version of Revalver will be even closer in terms of realism.

 

[Reckless Abandon]

Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I use amplitube. It took me only a few minutes to get the sound of my jcm 800 close miked at the normal volume I play. Same with a 5150.

Not sure on amps I don't own amp I don't play a lot.

It is meant to capture the recorded sound from my understanding. I quite like it for recording.