Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

[Aceman]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

They are ballpark kinds of things. Depending on the model, could be a larger or smaller ballpark.

I think Joe nailed it: The feel and dynamics are rarely modeled.

Also I agree that the model tends to be the 'classic' or perceived sound. The real amp may be a b!tch to get to sound that way.

 

[Filipe Marquez]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Another thing i might add, is that i had put out my AKG 141 Studio phones about a year ago, cause the cable was screwed up. I then bought an AKG K-44, cause i didn't have the money. One of these days i managed to make a trick where i could eliminate part of the hum from the broken cable of the 141, and it was like, my PODxt sounded 1000 times better than with the 44.

The 44 sounds harsh and dark, plus it feels like you're with some medieval torture machine in your head, so hard being the way that it squeezes your head. So conclusion, everything makes a difference, and in my experience, top grade phones are essential to whatever modeler you're gonna choose. =)

 

[Shadow1psc]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Another thing i might add, is that i had put out my AKG 141 Studio phones about a year ago, cause the cable was screwed up. I then bought an AKG K-44, cause i didn't have the money. One of these days i managed to make a trick where i could eliminate part of the hum from the broken cable of the 141, and it was like, my PODxt sounded 1000 times better than with the 44.

The 44 sounds harsh and dark, plus it feels like you're with some medieval torture machine in your head, so hard being the way that it squeezes your head. So conclusion, everything makes a difference, and in my experience, top grade phones are essential to whatever modeler you're gonna choose. =)

Everything makes a difference with modelers, this is absolutely 100% true. From the quality of headphone you use, to if you use a headphone amp to properly drive said headphones. Certain headphones are definitely also made and marketed with different audiences in mind. Beats are a popular example of this, incredibly bass heavy, and imo, exhausting to listen to. AKG make 'DJ' centric headphone models as well. Not to say that that's exactly what you were experiencing, but every headphone under say, $300-$400 is going to have its own color and characteristic in some way.

This also explains why there is so much varied response and reaction to modelers, because you don't even know the control environment with which the people who made it set them up. With that said, again, if you simply ignore what they were trying to accomplish and hook up through a transparent pre-amp + decent cab, you can get absolutely killer sounds and probably emulate just about any tone with a good modeler. Whether or not that becomes cost effective vs. simply buying the damn amp you want is up to you.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Speaking of... Why do Guitar World's demos suck so badly? Not all of it is to do with the fact that Paul isn't a particularly tight player, whether it's a guitar or actually an amp they're meant to be demoing, they never seem to be able to dial in a good sound or capture it. They're a big company so what is the problem that they're having?!

 

[Filipe Marquez]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Speaking of... Why do Guitar World's demos suck so badly? Not all of it is to do with the fact that Paul isn't a particularly tight player, whether it's a guitar or actually an amp they're meant to be demoing, they never seem to be able to dial in a good sound or capture it. They're a big company so what is the problem that they're having?!

What are you talking about, Paul plays greatly!

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

What are you talking about, Paul plays greatly!

Yeah, he's pretty good. He's just a tad loose on the rhythm side of things. Seems like someone who's used to having the amps do the work and doesn't gel well with more open, uncompressed amps.

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

I think Joe nailed it: The feel and dynamics are rarely modeled.

Those days are over with current IR impulse/mimic technology. I have an AXE FX II MK II 10.5 and it is simply it. Very exciting times. What is even more exciting is capturing impulses of your own familar classic amps / customized, modded etc..rig/pedal board pedals etc. It just kicks ass to have your own meticulously designed setup rig available for instant recall for studio work. It has taken alot of trial and error and effort/research/time to get 'my' sound.

Honestly without the 'feel' and dynamics, what have we got but simply EQ curves? That is what so much of the original PODs were like.That said...expecting a model of any one given 'Deluxe' to sound like your 'Deluxe' is silly. But expecting a great sounding 'amp'? Yes, that is available and simply so awesome. And yes, with a system like the AXE FX, you can get a genuine understanding of Recto/Triple Rec/SS/Pentode/Tetrode etc. The 'Dumble' clone circuits sound just like Dumble clone circuits...etc. Cheers!

 

[Filipe Marquez]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Yeah, he's pretty good.

Word!

 

[Inkstained]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

It depends on the modeler. But in general, no, not a chance.

A 100-watt 1X12 solid-state Mustang III '59 Bassman sim cannot do what a real Bassman does. It cannot replicate the way a Marshall Super Lead double stack can push you back or flap your pants. It does not and will not have the bite of a real Vox AC 30.

There are a lot of modelers much better than the Mustangs. But the same problems are there.

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

...But in general, no, not a chance.

There are a lot of modelers much better than the Mustangs. But the same problems are there.

No not a chance? That certainly is bad news for alot of us! That means so many players have lost their ability to distinguish their tonal needs. LOL! :laughing: Maybe I should trade my Fractal in for a Mustang! It would certainly leave me alot of xtra dough leftover for an ear exam. Cheers!

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

No not a chance? That certainly is bad news for alot of us! That means so many players have lost their ability to distinguish their tonal needs. LOL! :laughing: Maybe I should trade my Fractal in for a Mustang! It would certainly leave me alot of xtra dough leftover for an ear exam. Cheers!

^^ joking ^^

In all seriousness there are plenty of vids with very tone 'discerning' players using the Fractal as their primary live rig through cabs and / or FOH. Impressive is an understatement. Worth checking out. I like the Zappa Plays Zappa myself. Being an owner, I have my amps here as my instant A/B. Truly awesome. Cheers.

 

[Inkstained]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

No not a chance? That certainly is bad news for alot of us! That means so many players have lost their ability to distinguish their tonal needs. LOL! :laughing: Maybe I should trade my Fractal in for a Mustang! It would certainly leave me alot of xtra dough leftover for an ear exam. Cheers!

Translation: Why are you personally attacking me? By the way, I own a Fractal (at least I do on the Internets :naughty. Didja know that? That's how I roll. Didja know that? I'm gonna go play with my Fractal now.

 

[Inkstained]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Translation: Why are you personally attacking me? By the way, I own a Fractal. Didja know that? That's how I roll. Didja know that?

^^^joking^^^

In all seriousness, there are plenty of vids out there that show modelers cover the gamut from not-so-great to impressive. Try to relax. But the experience of real tube amps is one a lot of "tone-discerning" players still appreciate. Even Dweezil owns a few Cornford heads and a few Mesas.

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Translation: Why are you personally attacking me? By the way, I own a Fractal (at least I do on the Internets :naughty. Didja know that? That's how I roll. Didja know that? I'm gonna go play with my Fractal now.

Hey InkStaind. Its all good. I was genuinely being sarcastic in my first post and genuine in my second. It is funny to hear statements like yours (comparing a Mustang to a $2300 Impluse Profiler) because I have my own real-world, real-time experience. You get yours, whatever it is and I get mine. I generally do not like modelers for my tone. I gave my POD away here on the forum, for free. As for feeling attacked on a forum? Na. This is not a 'versus' thread. I am loyal only to my tone tools, tube or digital both can be awesome. I have been at this for a long time and my gear is mine, chosen for me, by me through my own standards and experiences free of hype. What is relevant for me is to share that real-life experience as clearly as possible. Forum culture/comments are often their own reality which I know well (having built this SD one as well). I don't give or take any flame, its just silly. I do want to contribute as truthfully as possible here.

Maybe you should check out a Fractal next to your own live rig, if you haven't. It may offer a new perspective. I was slow to even try it myself based on my history with POD HD and such but a forumite came here with his to my studio and we checked it out in person for several hours. That was all it took. It is not just impressive, it is IT for me for direct tones. I love my amps a great deal (got 2 new Eminence Cannabis Rex getting installed in my Twin today, by me). I use them for touring and studio primarily though the AXE II has taken over Studio work for some things. Right now I also happen to really enjoy my Fractal: As for Dweezil, I get it. He is not anti-amps. Just the opposite. Most people who buy Fractals LIKE amp dynamics and tone, that's the whole point. Still his current Zappa Plays Zappa tour 2013 is now AXE FX 100%...as far as I know. Either way he has some stunning live tones.

BTW, I don't know why you think I would BS about the gear I play? Its pretty easy to verify.

Cheers~

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[Rodney Gene]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

This (Fractal tone) was tone matched by ear using my Twin and Ethos OD. This is one of my live tones (when using my Nash Tele) and when I play through the Fractal through high-end studio monitors, the experience of playing through my Twin and pedalboard is matched...for me. Its the ability to capture my live rig in the studio for instant recall that got me in the door. I am so grateful for it now.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Are Modelers a good indication of which tube amps I should look at?

Translation: Why are you personally attacking me? By the way, I own a Fractal (at least I do on the Internets :naughty. Didja know that? That's how I roll. Didja know that? I'm gonna go play with my Fractal now.

Sorry if I missed it earlier...what power amp do you run the FX into.?
Thanks