Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
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ItsaBass
New member
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
Top wrapping is a looks thing that people have talked themselves into believing is a tone thing. Take the same exact break angle top wrapped and through wrapped, and there will be absolutely no difference in tone or feel. Of course there will be a difference if you simply top wrap while leaving the studs where they were. That's because the break angle lessens when you do that. But it's nothing you can't achieve by simply raising the studs with the tailpiece strung properly.
Top wrapping is a looks thing that people have talked themselves into believing is a tone thing. Take the same exact break angle top wrapped and through wrapped, and there will be absolutely no difference in tone or feel. Of course there will be a difference if you simply top wrap while leaving the studs where they were. That's because the break angle lessens when you do that. But it's nothing you can't achieve by simply raising the studs with the tailpiece strung properly.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
As did Duane Allman.
If a guitar with a TOM has relatively narrow bridge screws into the body, the bridge can eventually lean forward due to the force of the strings, if they're at a steep angle.
I like to have my stop bar all the way down; in my mind that transfers more string vibrations to the body, and it reduces the forward pressure on the bridge. Maybe it gives a little more flex to the strings, and since I bend like a madman, that's a factor. Top wraps seem to be no problem with chrome or nickel, but gold stop bars will tarnish to varying degrees.
Not an issue to get into a brawl over (we have enough of those as it is). Do whatever method you like.
As did Duane Allman.
If a guitar with a TOM has relatively narrow bridge screws into the body, the bridge can eventually lean forward due to the force of the strings, if they're at a steep angle.
I like to have my stop bar all the way down; in my mind that transfers more string vibrations to the body, and it reduces the forward pressure on the bridge. Maybe it gives a little more flex to the strings, and since I bend like a madman, that's a factor. Top wraps seem to be no problem with chrome or nickel, but gold stop bars will tarnish to varying degrees.
Not an issue to get into a brawl over (we have enough of those as it is). Do whatever method you like.
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Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
Of course Zakk Wylde, Billy Gibbons and I think I've seen Jimmy Page do this also.
I don't know if it really does affect the tone that much but all I know is that it hasn't made it worse. And the strings definitely fell easier to bend. I haven't borken a string in years but I don't break strings anymore in any other guitars with different bridges so can't say that it is because of the top-wrapping.
I mainly use this because Zakk Wylde does and it looks cool and sounds good. So there you go.
Of course Zakk Wylde, Billy Gibbons and I think I've seen Jimmy Page do this also.
I don't know if it really does affect the tone that much but all I know is that it hasn't made it worse. And the strings definitely fell easier to bend. I haven't borken a string in years but I don't break strings anymore in any other guitars with different bridges so can't say that it is because of the top-wrapping.
I mainly use this because Zakk Wylde does and it looks cool and sounds good. So there you go.
constant mesh
New member
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
I know this topic causes much debate, but top wrapping really is a good thing, for a regular Joe, because most of the people set their tailpieces as low as they'll go and that leads to bridge collapsing or tilting. top wrap with the tailpiece down flush will improve the angle at which strings lead to the bridge.
That's my experience.
I know this topic causes much debate, but top wrapping really is a good thing, for a regular Joe, because most of the people set their tailpieces as low as they'll go and that leads to bridge collapsing or tilting. top wrap with the tailpiece down flush will improve the angle at which strings lead to the bridge.
That's my experience.
ExplorersRock
X-Files Duckbucker
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
I haven't tried this as of yet but I can see that the break angle would make a difference. But this strikes me as one of those preference things. Either it works for you and you like it or it doesn't suit you.
I haven't tried this as of yet but I can see that the break angle would make a difference. But this strikes me as one of those preference things. Either it works for you and you like it or it doesn't suit you.
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
Yep.
I switched to a top-wrap when I set up my new/old SG for exactly this reason. With the strings off, the tailpiece studs felt loose at the factory height, and the tailpiece had too much play in it. The whole thing tightened up considerably when I dropped it down for top-wrapping. (I didn't drop it all the way to the body, but I considered it.) A harder tail has got to be better for energy transfer from strings to body, and to improve sustain.
The way I adjusted mine also makes the angle of the string at the bridge less extreme. A good percentage of my string breaks happen at the saddle, so less strain here is likely a good thing.
Somehow I never had to think about this with any of my Ibanez guitars.
Yep.
I switched to a top-wrap when I set up my new/old SG for exactly this reason. With the strings off, the tailpiece studs felt loose at the factory height, and the tailpiece had too much play in it. The whole thing tightened up considerably when I dropped it down for top-wrapping. (I didn't drop it all the way to the body, but I considered it.) A harder tail has got to be better for energy transfer from strings to body, and to improve sustain.
The way I adjusted mine also makes the angle of the string at the bridge less extreme. A good percentage of my string breaks happen at the saddle, so less strain here is likely a good thing.
Somehow I never had to think about this with any of my Ibanez guitars.
Mr. B
New member
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
I do it for less string tension and a slinkier feel, but I think it also has the benefit of being more structurally stable. Cranking the mounting studs up a lot higher gives the tailpiece more leverage to lean the tailpiece forward in its bushings over time. I like to keep it down tight to the body if possible.
I do it for less string tension and a slinkier feel, but I think it also has the benefit of being more structurally stable. Cranking the mounting studs up a lot higher gives the tailpiece more leverage to lean the tailpiece forward in its bushings over time. I like to keep it down tight to the body if possible.
ExplorersRock
X-Files Duckbucker
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
Alright! I'm sold on giving it s whirl next time I restring one of my TOM equipped guitars. Can't hurt to try it and it's easy to undo. Why not?
Alright! I'm sold on giving it s whirl next time I restring one of my TOM equipped guitars. Can't hurt to try it and it's easy to undo. Why not?
sosomething
Seymour Duncan Customer Support
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
I've done it for years, but mostly for feel. It seems more comfortable against my picking hand. I'm often palm muting to varying degrees to get different timbre from the strings, and the top wrap is less jagged-feeling against my palm.
Also, it takes some of the guesswork out of setups. Crank it down, top wrap, adjust your action with the TOM. Boom.
I've done it for years, but mostly for feel. It seems more comfortable against my picking hand. I'm often palm muting to varying degrees to get different timbre from the strings, and the top wrap is less jagged-feeling against my palm.
Also, it takes some of the guesswork out of setups. Crank it down, top wrap, adjust your action with the TOM. Boom.
jacksontrader
New member
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
I did this on a LP copy I had. I didn't hear much difference but I was changing pups at the same time so it wasn't really a factor that I could gauge. The only things that came to my mind was that there is more string in front of the bridge with doing this and that's always a plus, also by rapping the strings around the tail you have more string contact with it and that can't hurt either. Cool stuff.
I did this on a LP copy I had. I didn't hear much difference but I was changing pups at the same time so it wasn't really a factor that I could gauge. The only things that came to my mind was that there is more string in front of the bridge with doing this and that's always a plus, also by rapping the strings around the tail you have more string contact with it and that can't hurt either. Cool stuff.
bloodswords
New member
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
For me it's neither- I need it for this reason:
I have low action in majority of my guitars, with the TOM lowered, I need to lower the hard tail as well, otherwise, there isn't sufficient pressure at the TOM to hold the strings down- they pop out of the slots with every bend. But once the hard tail is lowered, the above-depicted situation takes place.
So the wrapover is necessary for me.
For me it's neither- I need it for this reason:
I have low action in majority of my guitars, with the TOM lowered, I need to lower the hard tail as well, otherwise, there isn't sufficient pressure at the TOM to hold the strings down- they pop out of the slots with every bend. But once the hard tail is lowered, the above-depicted situation takes place.
So the wrapover is necessary for me.
Archer_of_Fish
New member
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
I top wrap for feel reasons, it makes a set of strings feel slinkier. 10's feel like lighter almost like a set of 9's
I top wrap for feel reasons, it makes a set of strings feel slinkier. 10's feel like lighter almost like a set of 9's
constant mesh
New member
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
Forgot to add - with top wrapping strings also put downward pressure on the tailpiece, the same idea as on a nut, and this puts a lot less stress on the bushings. On some guitars I have seen bushings poping out, top wrapping saves them.
Of course for my customers I do whatever I'm told to or just set it as it was before. Most of the people are not very fond of top wrap if they haven't done or heard of it yet.
Forgot to add - with top wrapping strings also put downward pressure on the tailpiece, the same idea as on a nut, and this puts a lot less stress on the bushings. On some guitars I have seen bushings poping out, top wrapping saves them.
Of course for my customers I do whatever I'm told to or just set it as it was before. Most of the people are not very fond of top wrap if they haven't done or heard of it yet.
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
Actually, you can still do this, and in fact, you have more string to play with and easier access too. As an added bonus, top wrap makes it silly easy to do behind-the-bridge bends.
I've also noticed what sosomething is saying about palm muting. Much more comfortable with top-wrap.
YMMV.
Actually, you can still do this, and in fact, you have more string to play with and easier access too. As an added bonus, top wrap makes it silly easy to do behind-the-bridge bends.
I've also noticed what sosomething is saying about palm muting. Much more comfortable with top-wrap.
YMMV.
metalchurch79
New member
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
Once the strings are tuned to a given pitch, they have a constant string tension on them, thats just a given.
So, if you top wrap it, and you get the sensation that the strings are easier to bend, all you are really experiencing are the strings slipping in the saddles.
That's not a good thing imo, and only leads to tuning issues and string wear at the contact point.
I personally dont see any benefits to that method, but it's not a bad thing and I dont knock anyone who does it, because that's their choice.
Kinda reminds me of the double locking Floyd thing where guys string them with the ball ends @ the tuners.
Once the strings are tuned to a given pitch, they have a constant string tension on them, thats just a given.
So, if you top wrap it, and you get the sensation that the strings are easier to bend, all you are really experiencing are the strings slipping in the saddles.
That's not a good thing imo, and only leads to tuning issues and string wear at the contact point.
I personally dont see any benefits to that method, but it's not a bad thing and I dont knock anyone who does it, because that's their choice.
Kinda reminds me of the double locking Floyd thing where guys string them with the ball ends @ the tuners.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Blog: Top Wrapping a TOM Tailpiece
That explanation just doesn't work, though I like the diagrams you drew. It's super high bridge height that might necessitate top wrapping in some cases, not super low bridge height. Low action actually makes it so you never need to top wrap. Whether or not your strings contact the back of the bridge has to do with break angle, and nothing else.
Top wrapping is not necessary for you at all. All you have to do is position the tailpiece at the right height to keep the strings off of the back of the bridge. If you hit the bridge with the strings, it doesn't mean you need to top wrap. It just means you went too far; you need to reduce the break angle. That can be done by raising the studs, or by top wrapping.
So it's not like you're backed in to a corner, forced to top wrap, as you explained. You've got the factory-intended option of just adjusting the studs as needed.
For an example, you get a new guitar. The string height is too great for you. So you lower it to your liking. But now the tailpiece is too high in relation to the bridge (i.e. the break angle is less than stock), and your strings pop out on bends. You just have to lower the tailpiece until you arrive back at the stock break angle. Once there, your strings won't pop out of the saddles any more than if the guitar still had the factory setup. If your strings run into the back of the bridge, you've obviously increased the break angle from stock.
And speaking of factory setups, Gibson TOMs benefit by having the saddles slotted when new IME. I'd venture to guess that this might solve your problem.
For me it's neither- I need it for this reason:
I have low action in majority of my guitars, with the TOM lowered, I need to lower the hard tail as well, otherwise, there isn't sufficient pressure at the TOM to hold the strings down- they pop out of the slots with every bend. But once the hard tail is lowered, the above-depicted situation takes place.
So the wrapover is necessary for me.
That explanation just doesn't work, though I like the diagrams you drew. It's super high bridge height that might necessitate top wrapping in some cases, not super low bridge height. Low action actually makes it so you never need to top wrap. Whether or not your strings contact the back of the bridge has to do with break angle, and nothing else.
Top wrapping is not necessary for you at all. All you have to do is position the tailpiece at the right height to keep the strings off of the back of the bridge. If you hit the bridge with the strings, it doesn't mean you need to top wrap. It just means you went too far; you need to reduce the break angle. That can be done by raising the studs, or by top wrapping.
So it's not like you're backed in to a corner, forced to top wrap, as you explained. You've got the factory-intended option of just adjusting the studs as needed.
For an example, you get a new guitar. The string height is too great for you. So you lower it to your liking. But now the tailpiece is too high in relation to the bridge (i.e. the break angle is less than stock), and your strings pop out on bends. You just have to lower the tailpiece until you arrive back at the stock break angle. Once there, your strings won't pop out of the saddles any more than if the guitar still had the factory setup. If your strings run into the back of the bridge, you've obviously increased the break angle from stock.
And speaking of factory setups, Gibson TOMs benefit by having the saddles slotted when new IME. I'd venture to guess that this might solve your problem.
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