Buzz Feiten Tuning System

[ParaGuitarMedic]

Thinking about getting this whenever I get my heritage. If I's likes it I will put it on my Melancon Custom Tele (which for a custom guitar has it tempering issues)

So.....the topic Is the Buzz Feiten Tuning System
Questions? :reporter: Comments? :reporter: Humerous Anecdotes?:laugh2:

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

Well....

1. I´m still not really convinced, even though I´ve played axes w/ the system... I´m pretty sure that you can achieve the same effect with tuning and intonation offsets

2. (more importantly) If you use teh system, every guitarist and Bassist in your band has to as well, otherwise you´ll run in to issues there...

"If everyone else is out of tune by the same amoumt, and one guy is perfectly in tune, who´s really out of tune?"

 

[suislidE03]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

Zerb got you.. I had my jackson feitenized (for free i might add....) and i have those same problems. Many notes are actually not in tune, and you will run into problems with another guitarist. Pretty rediculous if you ask me. I am not convinced that its that much better either. I will admit that most chords will be spot on all the way up the neck, and it is great to be in tune like that. However, it wasnt perfect for me, so i went back to standard intonation and I have better results for the styles of music I play.

If it wasnt done for free, I would have been disappointed.

*off-topic*
Oh and BTW, Mr "JohnJohn" is the one that did it, and we ran into a problem.. which is the reason he disappeared from the boards if anyone is curious.

 

[MattPete]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

What happened?

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

*curious I am*....

 

[LesStrat]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

... If I's likes it I will put it on my Melancon Custom Tele (which for a custom guitar has it tempering issues)...

This is surprising. Melancon uses a "compensated scale" that is supposed to be BETTER than the Feiten system. The few people I know that have used Melancon's LOVE them, and praise the intonation of the axe. Weird.

The Feiten system might be redundant on that axe.

Maybe you should contact Gerard himself. He answers emails and posts on his website forum.

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

I have done overdubs with my Feiten equipped washburns and didn't have any problems with tuning on other parts. Granted PRS uses a compensated nut as well but still, I just haven't had tuning issues when mixing with non-Feiten guitars

 

[suislidE03]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

Well, Ill say that he still owes me a great deal of money. I really dont know why he chose to disappear from the boards.. maybe he is around and we just dont know it. I have looked at his profile and he hasnt logged on since the incident, which was this past summer. I havent talked about it until now, and i havent called his shop to cuss him out or anything.. he is in Canada, and im over 1,000 miles away in Texas (not to mention in a different country). Is there much I could do anyway?

 

[ParaGuitarMedic]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

First of all....:hijacked:

Second. My Melancon is kind of an old one. Gerard made it for me about 5 years ago. However, I will have to research this further. Maybe I am just doing a bad intonation job. (I do doubt that though, since I setup my other axes and have no problems :fingersx: :blindfold

 

[ParaGuitarMedic]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

Wait! I think I figured it out! I changed the saddles on my Melancon after I got it!!! Could that have messed up the tempering?

 

[nepalnt21]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

Well....

1. I´m still not really convinced, even though I´ve played axes w/ the system... I´m pretty sure that you can achieve the same effect with tuning and intonation offsets

2. (more importantly) If you use teh system, every guitarist and Bassist in your band has to as well, otherwise you´ll run in to issues there...

"If everyone else is out of tune by the same amoumt, and one guy is perfectly in tune, who´s really out of tune?"

well if person "a" the feiten system did work as told, in which all of the notes are in tune no matter what chord shape, then person "a" is in tune.

person "b" does not use the bf system so he is not in tune.

person "c" also does not use it. he is not in tune, but is also not in tune with person "b" because they have different guitars.

so in conclusion, no matter if one person has the feiten system or not, he will still not be any more in tune with everyone else than if he didnt have it. so theres that.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

well if person "a" the feiten system did work as told, in which all of the notes are in tune no matter what chord shape, then person "a" is in tune.

person "b" does not use the bf system so he is not in tune.

person "c" also does not use it. he is not in tune, but is also not in tune with person "b" because they have different guitars. .....

Why is it impossible for B and C to be in tune w/ each other just because they have different guitars? I´m curious as to your logic here... In a way you essentially just said tuning and setups are BS... :eek13:

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

I've posted quite a lot about this.

The Feiten system is based an an enormous number of erroneous assumptions and only appears to work for people who have been chasing natural harmonic intervals on an instrument (the guitar!) that is physically and mathematically incapable of rendering them.

This is because if you tune your guitar using the Feiten system then you will be tuning closer to equal temperament than before and therefore your guitar will sound more in tune. But if you had learnt to tune to equal temperament already then you would have no need for Feiten's baloney.

Watch out for the link to my article "Dr. Feitenballs, or how I learned to stop worrying and love equal temperament"...

I'll also be posting a reproduction of the GAL datasheet on tuning your guitar to equal temperament and a brief resume of my own method for tempering intonation to compensate for the distortion of the scale by the presence of arc relief. I would have done this before but was distracted by the need to earn a living

 

[jdm61]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

My guitar tech guy was trained to do the Feiten sytem and he decided not to for reasons already mentioned and one more VERY important one. In his opinion, even using the shelf nut, the system was not really reversable in practical terms, especially with guitars like maple board Strats. So if you decided that it was not for you, tough dookie He also said that there were only 2 tuners readily available that would work with the Feiten system and one was a POS and the other was ridiculously expensive. That kinda got me off of the idea REAL quick.:laugh2:

 

[jdm61]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

hey Doc......could you repeat that in English?:chairfall Just kidding.....i would love to see that article.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

This is surprising. Melancon uses a "compensated scale" that is supposed to be BETTER than the Feiten system. The few people I know that have used Melancon's LOVE them, and praise the intonation of the axe. Weird.

The Feiten system might be redundant on that axe.

Maybe you should contact Gerard himself. He answers emails and posts on his website forum.

I just had a look at Gerards explanation of his compensated system.

It appears that he has correctly identified the arc relief as one source of the guitar's intonation problems (I tried explaining this in another thread a while back) and he is adjusting the position of his frets to compensate for the over compensation that occurs if you intonate using the 12th fret as a reference. This is a considerable step ahead of Buzz Feiten whose ignorance of basic physics, the rules of harmony and the history of temperament is embarrassing for someone who sets himself up as an self proclaimed "expert" on intonation.

I haven't heard or seen a Melancon, but he may have built a better mousetrap, so to speak.

However it would be a mistake to assume that Gerards sophisticated fret placement is a resolution of the problem that most guitarist are disturbed by; the inability of a fixed pitch instrument to reproduce accurate harmonic series intervals in all positions. This is simply physically impossible, like squaring the circle...

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

hey Doc......could you repeat that in English?:chairfall Just kidding.....i would love to see that article.

I'll e-mail you a copy. I'll PM you my e-mail address then you can send me yours. It's too much to post on here and it's sufficiently opinionated and scurrilous to raise eyebrows amongst the administrators

 

[ParaGuitarMedic]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

ooo...sounds dangerous

 

[nepalnt21]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

Why is it impossible for B and C to be in tune w/ each other just because they have different guitars? I´m curious as to your logic here... In a way you essentially just said tuning and setups are BS... :eek13:

its hard to explain my logic, but ill try. basically, if what you said is true, and the feiten system is not that good, how can it be less in tune with another guitar that doesnt have the system, then if both guitars didnt have them?

 

[nepalnt21]

Re: Buzz Feiten Tuning System

ok one mre time with a scenario

lets say guitarist ABBA gets the feiten system.

guitarsit ZABBA does not.

sure, they may not be too in tune with eachother, but if ABBA did NOT get the BF system, he still would not be perfectly in tune with ZABBA's guitar.