Having finally got the JB humbucker working in my HSS performer strat it sounds just as muffled as the Shawbucker did. Id assumed it was the Shawbucker that was responsible for this dark sound. It was particularly bad for palm muted notes and harmonics, but the JB has the same problem. Even with tone control at 10 and every tone i try having treble turned up to 10 its still way too dark a sound. When i was installing it i noticed the tone cap for the humbucker was actually a 250k, as was the volume pot. Could this be why it sounds so dark compared to the JB junior in my previous strat? I had a luthier install that one so not sure whether he changed the pot to 500k or whether the JB junior is just more suited to 250k. Previous strat was an SSS this one is HSS yet the SSS with JB junior sounded much better than its big brother does. This sounds like a blanket has been thrown over the speakers just like the Shawbucker did.
Could 250k tonepot with humbucker be why sound is so dark in HSS strat
- Thread starter Baribus
- Start date
freefrog
Well-known member
1-SC sized humbuckers don't "comb filter" notes like full sized ones. Go there and enter "0.65" then "1.5" in the "width" box to see what I mean:
2-The sound of passive humbuckers is far to be defined only by the resistive load of pots. Among other factors, inductance of the pickup and capacitive load of wiring are to take in account, as well as the input impedance of the first "host" receiving the signal of the pickup. Which brings simple questions: what is your rig - amp, cab(s), cables and their length, pedals or not?
The page below explains a few basic things about passive pickups. Scroll down to fig. 14 to see what pot resistance does to the resonance of your pickup and to fig. 15 to see what the capacitance of your wiring + cable(s) does with not less effects on the tone.
3-If one wants to increase the resistive load, changing a 250k tone control in a no-load pot is a cheaper solution than changing pots, for the record. Recipe there:
How To Make A No Load Tone Pot
In this guide we demonstrate how to modify a standard log (audio) taper pot to make it function as a blender pot (similar to a no load pot). Blender pots are most commonly used in the popular Strat blend wiring mod which replaces the second tone control on a typical Strat with a blend control -...
sixstringsupplies.co.uk
4-I've no horses in the race (no JB nor Shawbucker in any of my guitars right now) but questions in my point 2 seem relevant if we consider that you perceive as "muffled" a pickup (the JB) used on famous tracks that I don't exacly hear in the same way:
Classic Solos Played With The JB Humbucker - Seymour Duncan
By Jay Hale The Seymour Duncan JB humbucker is beyond iconic in the rock world. Its tone is so distinctive, so inherently familiar and pleasing it’s almost what you expect to hear on a rock recording. Since its introduction in the 70s it has appeared on so many recordings you probably don’t...
www.seymourduncan.com
Reason why my points 1, 2 and 3 are meant to help you to explain and to solve what you notice... FWIW.
Juanhanglo
Active member
250k is for singles and can muffle humbuckers, all other things being equal, compared to a 500k pot.
500k can cause singles to sound harsh. Just roll that down to 7 for ~250k
I like 300 to 350k for my fatter singles.
A tbx tone control can get you that default 250k for the singles, with the ability to roll up thru 500k to 1m. As well
500k can cause singles to sound harsh. Just roll that down to 7 for ~250k
I like 300 to 350k for my fatter singles.
A tbx tone control can get you that default 250k for the singles, with the ability to roll up thru 500k to 1m. As well
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Which is kinda a waste of a good TBX if you ask me. I prefer wiring it for a tone and a bass cut
Thanks for your replies.
uOpt
The capacitor is a 22 and there only seems to be one for all the pots. I dont have anything to test it with. Thought evem for an amateur it would be a relatively simple swap, naively. Then came the need for a new pickguard cause of the 2 vs 3 screw holes, the 6 tiny lugs on the push pull, the out of phase mixed pickups thing, the different wire colours and now after all that almost the same sound as the original pickup despite supposedly much higher output.freefrog
Thats interesting, as is that page you linked to. So if i read it right full humbuckers are naturally slightly darker but manufacturers normally offset that somewhat by using 500k tone pots with them, which fender havent in this guitar. I dont think the pickup is the problem and have seen many youtube videos where it sounded great, plus this Shaw guy is constantly referred to as a guru which leads me to doubt hed make a bad pickup either. I had assumed it was just a bit too weak for hard rock and metal, with it being described as low output, but now that the high output one sounds quite similar it makes me wonder what other things could be contributing. I certainly havent ruled out me being an idiot and doing something wrong with the JB installation along with the shawbucker being a bit too weak for what im trying to play but it did strike me as strange that all the more expensive HSS strat ranges have 500k tone pots for the humbucker, so that made me wonder how much of a difference it could make that the performer one doesnt. With regards to the setup and cables im using amp modelling with audio interface, decent quality headphones and short cables of supposedly good standard, but its the exact setup i was using for the previous strat which had a JB junior in the bridge and sounded awesome. It even had enough bite for the palm muting on Aint Talkin About Love and nailed the Sad But True tone. Some stuff i would play with the tone all the way down to 4 or 5 but this one its on 10 for most things. Everything is the same equipment-wise except its just a different guitar and pickups. Im going to dig out my old strat that even a full refret couldnt save and test it on the frets that arent deadened to make sure theres no problem with the equipment or that i dont have some distorted nostalgic view of how good it sounded. Then i plan to take it apart and check the value of the pots the luthier used with the JB junior. Dont worry i wasnt suggesting all these pros had been using a rubbish pickup for years. I wish i could take a time machine back to the 80s or 90s as thats my music. Somethings not right in this setup and given i love the JB junior i highly doubt its the design of its big brother.Juanhanglo
Thats what i thought and i do find it strange that this is the only HSS strat made in USA that doesnt have 500k tone pot. Out of curiosity is it normal for HSS guitars to have 500k volume pot as well or just the tonepot for the humbucker? Does the volume pot make much difference? I should never have tried to learn this stuff with my only functioning guitar.
freefrog
Well-known member
@Baribus : if you have a pickguard with pickups that you appreciate in a Strat that you can't use no more, it should be doable to transplant this old loaded pickguard in the new instrument. Just check if the number of screw holes is the same, as well as their location (and if it's not, mounting the old pickups + their harness in a new SSS pickguard shouldn't be too long nor too expensive).
Anyway, I confirm that SC sized humbuckers don't (and can't) sound like full sized ones.
I'll also repeat that if 250k volume + tone pots are a problem in a guitar, changing the tone control in a no load pot gives the same overall resistive load than mounting two 500k instead. And it's cheaper (and should be fast to do).
Resistors can then be mounted in parallel with the brightest pickups if needed, which avoids to lower the tone control each time a single coil is selected... See the section named "FAKING OUT YOUR SINGLE COILS WITH RESISTORS" in the following page (Fralin didn't invent this idea, BTW: Bill Lawrence was using resistors in parallel with pickups to adjust their resistive load way before):
www.fralinpickups.com
Good luck in your experiments.
Anyway, I confirm that SC sized humbuckers don't (and can't) sound like full sized ones.
I'll also repeat that if 250k volume + tone pots are a problem in a guitar, changing the tone control in a no load pot gives the same overall resistive load than mounting two 500k instead. And it's cheaper (and should be fast to do).
Resistors can then be mounted in parallel with the brightest pickups if needed, which avoids to lower the tone control each time a single coil is selected... See the section named "FAKING OUT YOUR SINGLE COILS WITH RESISTORS" in the following page (Fralin didn't invent this idea, BTW: Bill Lawrence was using resistors in parallel with pickups to adjust their resistive load way before):
How To Use Resistors In A Guitar & Cool Tricks | Fralin Pickups
Resistors are basic components that add a lot of versatility to your guitar. Using Resistors in a guitar can add a whole new layer of tone.
www.fralinpickups.com
Good luck in your experiments.
Funnily enough i had been considering earlier today that maybe the SSS pickguard would fit in the HSS guitar i now have cause whatever it is in that guitar i prefer the sound of it by some distance. It looked from pictures like the screws are in exactly the same place as are the top 2 frets, just a bigger hole in the body of the HSS guitar unless im mistaken. Its the only guitar i played for 20 years until the action was gradually raised over the years until it was as high as it would go and was still buzzing. In fact 2 entire frets were deadened so i paid £350 for a complete refret only to receive it back exactly the same. Figured it must have been a twisted neck or something unfixable and the tech either didnt know what it was or didnt want to tell me i owed him that much for a failed repair, so he gave me the guitar said he was in a hurry so needed the money then ran away! I dont know enough to do the other things you said. I might know most of the words now but a month ago i didnt and am one of those people who was always worried to mess with it myself so paid someone who knew more than me to do it and just knows how to play(kind of). I dont even know what a no load pot is and my soldering is quite bad. It even took ages to get the ground to stick to the volume pot. I was worried i may have damaged the pot as it looked burned afterwards. Just would not stick even though i tinned it first like i saw in a video. If i transplant the other pickguard its just the output wires and the ground lug thing isnt it? Surely even i cant mess that up.
freefrog
Well-known member
Juanhanglo
Active member
Freefrog knows his stuff.@Baribus : if you have a pickguard with pickups that you appreciate in a Strat that you can't use no more, it should be doable to transplant this old loaded pickguard in the new instrument. Just check if the number of screw holes is the same, as well as their location (and if it's not, mounting the old pickups + their harness in a new SSS pickguard shouldn't be too long nor too expensive).
Anyway, I confirm that SC sized humbuckers don't (and can't) sound like full sized ones.
I'll also repeat that if 250k volume + tone pots are a problem in a guitar, changing the tone control in a no load pot gives the same overall resistive load than mounting two 500k instead. And it's cheaper (and should be fast to do).
Resistors can then be mounted in parallel with the brightest pickups if needed, which avoids to lower the tone control each time a single coil is selected... See the section named "FAKING OUT YOUR SINGLE COILS WITH RESISTORS" in the following page (Fralin didn't invent this idea, BTW: Bill Lawrence was using resistors in parallel with pickups to adjust their resistive load way before):
How To Use Resistors In A Guitar & Cool Tricks | Fralin Pickups
Resistors are basic components that add a lot of versatility to your guitar. Using Resistors in a guitar can add a whole new layer of tone.
Good luck in your experiments.
My only reservation with no load pots is they're only no load at ten. If you want tone control between no load and 250k, you are S.O.L.
Volume pot swaps are more tricky than tone pots.
The higher the value, the higher the resonant peak becomes. This makes singles coils brighter, and most of the time, I believe, humbuckers increase upper mids (clarity).
Tone pots are mainly just a limit to how maximum bright you can go.
Thought id update whats going on. Tried the old guitar and that sounded even worse so i can only think theres something not right with my equipment. Cant see the guitar cable being damaged just sitting there and the headphones havent given a single crackle or hint of a problem so that leaves the audio interface, which is the oldest of those things. I did have some issues with the headphone input a while back and im wondering if thats gotten worse at the exact time i bought a new guitar. If the old guitar sounds way worse than it used to it must be the equipment. I was going to get a new audio interface anyway as this one doesnt work with windows 11 so i was having to use it with an old laptop ,so will try that and see if that sounds better. Also after rereading Freefrogs articles i tried lowering the humbucker in case i had stratitis which has actually cleared up the clarity of the bass a fair bit.
