Direct box speaker simulators

[SpaceShipOne]

Krankguitarist has my head thinking. Could I use a Palmer pdi09 with my 5150 to record at home at lower volume and get a great sound, and use it live at loud volumes so I couldn't need a mic? What I'm thinking is this little box at 150$ is cheaper then spending a ton on mics for live/recording use. What's your idea's and such? Will running the amp at a live volume overload the Palmer?

http://www.palmergear.com/pdi09.shtml

 

[Reckless Abandon]

Re: Direct box speaker simulators

Nothing will sound as good as a mic. I find DI's too compressed, fizzy and sterile.

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: Direct box speaker simulators

Krankguitarist has my head thinking. Could I use a Palmer pdi09 with my 5150 to record at home at lower volume and get a great sound, and use it live at loud volumes so I couldn't need a mic? What I'm thinking is this little box at 150$ is cheaper then spending a ton on mics for live/recording use. What's your idea's and such? Will running the amp at a live volume overload the Palmer?

http://www.palmergear.com/pdi09.shtml

No but these Palmer is used by lots of pros.
PDI-03
Speaker Simulator
PGA-04 ADIG-LB
Speaker Simulator

 

[ErikH]

Re: Direct box speaker simulators

It'll work, but your amp still needs a load on it, meaning a speaker cab. I have a Behringer Ultra-G DI box and it has a 4x12 speaker sim in it. It's not bad. You can run speaker out to it, then through the direct out go right to your speaker cab. There's an XLR out to send the signal to the board for mixing. There's also a couple -20db pad buttons to help bring the level down some so it doesn't overdrive the board. Great little box. But like I said, you still need to put a load on the amp, and that goes for any DI box with a tube amp. So, you'll be able to record without a mic, but you still won't be able to really crank it up.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: Direct box speaker simulators

Nothing will sound as good as a mic. I find DI's too compressed, fizzy and sterile.

You've never tried a Palmer.


The only thing I prefer to the Palmer or impulses is a 4x12 in a nice, treated room of decent size with something like a TLM 193, Royer 122, or MD421 + SM57 combo, with really nice pres.

For home recording, it's the best you're going to get, IMO.

 

[krankguitarist]

Re: Direct box speaker simulators

You've never tried a Palmer.


The only thing I prefer to the Palmer or impulses is a 4x12 in a nice, treated room of decent size with something like a TLM 193, Royer 122, or MD421 + SM57 combo, with really nice pres.

For home recording, it's the best you're going to get, IMO.

Word...micing up a guitar cabinet is more trouble than its worth for the home studio...unless ya got a real nice room. And nice neighbors.

In my case, DI's the only way I can go. Using my PDI-09 I've gotten far better tone than I've ever been able to get with a mic. Palmer's the way to go.

 

[DankStar]

Re: Direct box speaker simulators

In my case, DI's the only way I can go.

you can't use a isolation speaker box? not that it's going to give you a better sound than the palmer, but seems like it'd be another option for you if you need to record quietly. i'm going to slap together one for a 10-inch speaker I have laying around just for kicks. may or may not work well [I just like to experiment].

 

[krankguitarist]

Re: Direct box speaker simulators

Good point...I actually had ordered a Randall ISO box a while back from Sam Ash, but that was about two months ago and the **** thing still hadn't shipped. I got tired of waiting and just went ahead and bought the Palmer. Ended up canceling the order on the ISO cab (probably wasn't ever gonna come anyways :smack.

I've heard some pretty decent recordings with an ISO cab as well...but Jeff sent me a track a while back of a dude with a Mesa Mark IV and a Palmer PDI-03 that just blew my socks off. First impressions of the palmer have been very good...I'm still gonna be micing up my amps for cleans, but this thing does the job very well for dirt.

 

[DankStar]

Re: Direct box speaker simulators

Good point...I actually had ordered a Randall ISO box a while back from Sam Ash, but that was about two months ago and the **** thing still hadn't shipped. I got tired of waiting and just went ahead and bought the Palmer. Ended up canceling the order on the ISO cab (probably wasn't ever gonna come anyways :smack.

I've heard some pretty decent recordings with an ISO cab as well...but Jeff sent me a track a while back of a dude with a Mesa Mark IV and a Palmer PDI-03 that just blew my socks off. First impressions of the palmer have been very good...I'm still gonna be micing up my amps for cleans, but this thing does the job very well for dirt.

sucks that never came in, but sounds like you found a winner and probably the better choice anyway! i'll post clips of my iso cab if I ever get it done (I have very limited woodworking skills).

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: Direct box speaker simulators

Iso cabs never really cut down volume enough to effectively be able to record quietly with a cranked tube amp, unless you isolate the isolation box that the iso cab is in.

That, and with all the standing waves and reflections... even with a ton of foam, you're going to hear weird crap going on.

 

[Shauggy]

Re: Direct box speaker simulators

Have you guys ever tried using one of those live? (the Palmer DIs)

 

[Top Jimmy]

Re: Direct box speaker simulators

I never really understood how these DI/Speak Sim boxes work. You need to have the load sent somewhere after passing threw the speak sim box?

So guitar into amp -> Amp speaker out into speak sim box -> speaker sim box into recording unit -> also speaker sim box out to something to take the load from the amp?

What handles the load at the end then? Or am I completely off in how it works?

 

[ErikH]

Re: Direct box speaker simulators

I never really understood how these DI/Speak Sim boxes work. You need to have the load sent somewhere after passing threw the speak sim box?

So guitar into amp -> Amp speaker out into speak sim box -> speaker sim box into recording unit -> also speaker sim box out to something to take the load from the amp?

What handles the load at the end then? Or am I completely off in how it works?

You're right on. See my first post about this. Unless there's a dummy load after the sim to give the amp the load it needs, a speaker cab is needed for a tube amp. The exception would be a SS amp and even the Valvetronix Amps that can handle not having a load on the speaker outs. DI/speaker sim boxes don't provide a load without spending some bucks, like for the Palmer PDI-03 which does provide a load.