Duncan SSL1, california set

Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

"We" haven't managed to work out anything. There are still outstanding and relevant questions about the Calibrated SSL-1 Set. I think providing DCR values for each position would suffice in answering them without divulging proprietary information.
 
Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

I don't see what people think could be so "proprietary" about a coil of wire. This is just an excuse that gets thrown around to justify keeping customers in the dark about very basic product information, but pointing that out here is akin to knocking Scientology in a Tom Cruise fan club.
 
Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

Insults aside, what specifically do you think they should state, the number of turns? They aren't going to do that, I assure you.

They likely will provide the DCR and that's about the best that can be expected.
 
Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

gregory said:
Insults aside, what specifically do you think they should state, the number of turns? They aren't going to do that, I assure you.

They likely will provide the DCR and that's about the best that can be expected.
Click to expand...

They should list the inductance. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of electromagnetics will know that DC resistance matters a little while inductance matters very much. Seymour Duncan even has a blog entry about the significance of inductance https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/tag/inductance .

I don't expect to see a turn count, since that can largely be inferred form the DC resistance, nor does the turn count itself imply a tonal aspect of a pickup as the inductance does, but that being said, it's hardly proprietary information that would need to be closely guarded.
 
Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

Seriously, three pages?

Inductance, DCR, blah blah... Does it sound good in your guitar with you playing? That is the only thing that matters.

Strat players managed to make it almost 30 whole years with whatever pickups came in the guitar and still managed to create music.
 
Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

I would think after many years, they have a pretty good grasp on the type of info a reasonable consumer might need to choose which pickup they should put in their guitar. Over several decades, a business has been built and sustained by providing this info about their products. Someone requesting a lot of info outside of this probably knows what they need and want more than any company. I would suggest you get to winding. But being combative here isn't going to get you the info you want, and quite frankly goes against the spirit of this place. A better approach might be to state why you are having trouble getting the right sounds for the music you are writing/playing/performing. You can always buy a pickup with the exact specs you want through the Custom Shop- and you can be super specific, too.
But don't attack forum members because they don't understand how the information you want (and don't have) is keeping you from buying the correct pickups to make the music you have in your head. I don't really understand that either, but your method of communication here (by comparing us to cult members) isn't working. Everyone here wants great tone. We all share that.
 
Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

Meanwhile the Seymour Duncan website is still providing misleading information about the CA 50 SET:
"a slightly overwound bridge pickup for easier pickup balance."

I was able to get the misinformation about the SH-16 using a 59 Neck coil corrected in only a couple of days. What happened?!?
 
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Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

As a resident of Sonoma County, I truly feel for them; however, there were no fires or mudslides in Southern California at the end of October, Jeremy.

That said I don't expect action any time soon.
 
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Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

So, Seymour Duncan has a blog post touting the importance of inductance, but asking that they publish inductance is an act of belligerence. Sure.
 
Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

Asking about it is fine, but deciding to attack others when you either don't get the answer you want, or people ask why you need to know that is not fine.
 
Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

gregory said:
Meanwhile the Seymour Duncan website is still providing misleading information about the CA 50 SET:
"a slightly overwound bridge pickup for easier pickup balance."

I was able to get the misinformation about the TB-16 using a 59 Neck coil corrected in only a couple of days. What happened?!?
Click to expand...

There are certainly issues with the website, and we've talked about that a lot on here. Obviously I would love it to be as accurate as possible. I don't think any of the errors are deliberately put there to deceive, however. I try to do my best, if questions come up, to get clear answers.
 
Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

Mincer said:
There are certainly issues with the website, and we've talked about that a lot on here.
Click to expand...
It seems quite rare that the situation ever rises above talk. The community is doing a fine job in pointing out the issues, but few will ever be resolved when defensiveness is the most common official response.

Back when I inquired about the SH-16, Riley was able to address the issue and fix it before he went home the very same day...
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/sho...ncan-Website&p=4128864&viewfull=1#post4128864

We were given the impression this specific issue would be addressed, but it seems the ball was dropped this time around.
 
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Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

My comment about people with rudimentary understanding of electromagnetics appreciating the importance of inductance was not meant as an insult. I think most here have better than a rudimentary understanding, are quick to point out that DC resistance does not relate to output and appreciate that inductance does, as the Seymour Duncan blog post discusses. Given how much of the market does appreciate the lack of importance of DC resistance compared to inductance, I do think it's actually insulting to us as customers to publish useless information while withholding other information, as if we're not sophisticated enough to understand what it means and how it can be useful. I'm sure we will get there, it's just a question of how long we're going to have to wait and whether or not AARP will have kicked in by then.
 
Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

PicoRiveraTele said:
My comment about people with rudimentary understanding of electromagnetics appreciating the importance of inductance was not meant as an insult. I think most here have better than a rudimentary understanding, are quick to point out that DC resistance does not relate to output and appreciate that inductance does, as the Seymour Duncan blog post discusses. Given how much of the market does appreciate the lack of importance of DC resistance compared to inductance, I do think it's actually insulting to us as customers to publish useless information while withholding other information, as if we're not sophisticated enough to understand what it means and how it can be useful.
Click to expand...

The problem isn't the customers, it's all the copy cats. Knowing inductance, DCR, wire gauge (which can easily be easily measured if not known), turn count, and magnet type are the key factors to making a pickup. There are minor ones too, but fakers are looking for a cheap semi-accurate replica that won't get then sued.

Not giving out details such as inductance make it a lot harder to fake them. If SD gave out inductance even I could probably fake most pickups. Even if the numbers of fakers would be small, there's a good chance the number of people who have use of knowing the inductance is smaller.
 
Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

Chistopher said:
The problem isn't the customers, it's all the copy cats. Knowing inductance, DCR, wire gauge (which can easily be easily measured if not known), turn count, and magnet type are the key factors to making a pickup. There are minor ones too, but fakers are looking for a cheap semi-accurate replica that won't get then sued.

Not giving out details such as inductance make it a lot harder to fake them. If SD gave out inductance even I could probably fake most pickups. Even if the numbers of fakers would be small, there's a good chance the number of people who have use of knowing the inductance is smaller.
Click to expand...

That's not a credible defense from any angle you look at it. If you are of the mind that inductance and turn count tells the story of the pickup, that information can be gathered easily with an LCR meter, or by simply unspooling the pickup from one bobbin to another, and then seeing what the wind count is when the wire runs out. Or you can get pretty close by calculating the DC resistance per foot of wire. A $200 LCR meter is money the average guitarists doesn't have, but surely a company like Seymour Duncan who's been in the business for decades must have a few on hand, and so the data should be easily accessible to them, if it's not already recorded somewhere.

On the other side of it, there are those who believe a pickup is more than the sum of its inductance, for example they say the turns per traverse, or the "scatterwind" and other arcane details truly dictate the tone of a pickup, if that's true, then publishing the inductance wouldn't truly reveal any critical details that make their product distinctive and superior, but it would still allow guitarists to infer things like brightness and voltage output to a degree that is not possible with DC resistance, or arbitrary "EQ charts".
 
Re: Duncan SSL1, california set

gregory said:
???

It isn't like this is difficult to ascertain. I thought you were a double-E.
Click to expand...

I'll admit that inductance isn't the hardest thing to find out. If you have the capabilities to measure resistance you can definitely measure inductance. The main point of my post was that giving out information like that would make it easier for counter fitters, who likely don't have the experience them selves to figure it out. If SD gives out nothing more than resistance and even the magnets in a pickup, it makes it hard for some schmuck to copy it. Say you have a 10k A5 pickup. That could be a hella overwound 42AWG like a Brobucker, or a 43AWG, like the Screamin Demon. Play with pickups long enough and you can guess the gauge based off tone and resistance, as well as knowledge on what effects magnets have on the tone. Joe schmuck can't do that if all he wants is to make profit off of some cheap parts that can be marked up to SD prices and sold as an SD. Give him some of the more important facts such as wire insulation, gauge, and inductance all he has to do is measure to make sure he's in the right ball park.

But then again, if your selling fakes you might as well take a picture of JBs and ship Epiphones.

As to why they mention DCR as an important fact, I speculate it's because all early pickups were 42AWG (anyone feel free to correct me, that's a big generalization) so DCR was more useful back then as a general indication of tone. Those were also the days when they didn't know the effects magnets had on tone, Gibson for one just tossed in whatever was cheapest at the time. So if your 7.6k PAF is to thin, trade it to your friend with a 8.4k PAF. The DMZ came along and used 16.6k as a selling point for the Super Distortion...

But they do give out resonant peaks here if you are interested.

And Gregory, at first when you mentioned double-E, I thought you were referring to my chest.
 
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