EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

Thank you.
I think I will go for the 6ca7 or El 34 II. But either 6ca7.

Can we say That jj or eh sounds typavlly, generally sounds in a certain way?
Jj always darker than eh or something?
Or it depend on the tube?

There is little question about the reliability of the EH. It's one of the higher quality tubes available today in my experience.

The EH is probably a bit brighter than the JJ, but either 6CA7 will have more "air" between the harmonics in the mids compared to an EL34, and that gives slightly smoother treble. Combined with the slightly deeper but tighter bass, and the open mids, and I estimate that they will be more what your looking for compared to EL34. Some people have said that the EH 6CA7 is close sounding to the original 6CA7s.

I don't have as much experience with the JJ version so I don't want to talk bad about them or misrepresent them.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

There is little question about the reliability of the EH. It's one of the higher quality tubes available today in my experience.

The EH is probably a bit brighter than the JJ, but either 6CA7 will have more "air" between the harmonics in the mids compared to an EL34, and that gives slightly smoother treble. Combined with the slightly deeper but tighter bass, and the open mids, and I estimate that they will be more what your looking for compared to EL34. Some people have said that the EH 6CA7 is close sounding to the original 6CA7s.

I don't have as much experience with the JJ version so I don't want to talk bad about them or misrepresent them.

Dave Friedman dropped JJ as standard in his amps in favor of EH because of too many JJ failures which were also taking out components when they blew which resulted in amp repairs on his dime due to tube failures. I know 2 other tube vendors that have a 50% JJ failure rate out of the box. Its not "talking bad" telling it the way it is when it comes to tubes. People have a right to know. JJ could be a good company but their QC sucks. Their solution to "bad tubes" is just to offer free replacements & flood the market with more "bad tubes".
Internet is saturated with JJ horror stories for years.
Buyer beware.

 

[Micha]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

Dave Friedman dropped JJ as standard in his amps in favor of EH because of too many JJ failures which were also taking out components when they blew which resulted in amp repairs on his dime due to tube failures. I know 2 other tube vendors that have a 50% JJ failure rate out of the box. Its not "talking bad" telling it the way it is when it comes to tubes. People have a right to know. JJ could be a good company but their QC sucks. Their solution to "bad tubes" is just to offer free replacements & flood the market with more "bad tubes".
Internet is saturated with JJ horror stories for years.
Buyer beware.

Oh it's very k te resting to know.
Thanks a lot for this informations.

I will go for EH 6Ca7's or Mullard reissue EL34's. I read a lot good things about these.

Important for me is to get 2 matched quartets.
I really don't want to spend a lot of extra money for bad tubes like JJ's... Mostly if there are selected ones to see them broken down after 6 months because of poor quality.
I'll eleminate JJ.

 

[Jacew]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

Dave Friedman dropped JJ as standard in his amps in favor of EH because of too many JJ failures which were also taking out components when they blew which resulted in amp repairs on his dime due to tube failures. I know 2 other tube vendors that have a 50% JJ failure rate out of the box. Its not "talking bad" telling it the way it is when it comes to tubes. People have a right to know. JJ could be a good company but their QC sucks. Their solution to "bad tubes" is just to offer free replacements & flood the market with more "bad tubes".
Internet is saturated with JJ horror stories for years.
Buyer beware.

Well. I have personally used them few batches and never had a bad one. And those who don't like them, complain usually how dark they sound, not about reliability.

Only heard you bad mouthing them really. In fact I recall you've been bad mouthing every new tube manufacturer out there in favor of NOS/VOS tubes.

I don't know, but I'm begginning to suspect you sell them...

 

[Jacew]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

When you say "darker" what does it mean?
Less treble? More bass? Less opened? Less mids?

I search tubes that are neutraler than stock el34.

Mind you, this is just about their preamp tubes I mentioned. I don't know about their 6CA7's or EL34's: More mids, definitely in the lower register. Their not overly bassy though, like Sovteks for comparison. Treble is clearer, more contained and less sparkly than most.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

Well. I have personally used them few batches and never had a bad one. And those who don't like them, complain usually how dark they sound, not about reliability.

Only heard you bad mouthing them really. In fact I recall you've been bad mouthing every new tube manufacturer out there in favor of NOS/VOS tubes.

I don't know, but I'm begginning to suspect you sell them...

Not true at all. IDK WTF you're talking about but you're on the other side of the planet & frankly i could care less.

I advocate NOS Blackburn Mullard & Amperex for pre's & Russian power tubes. Anyone that knows me will tell you the same thing.

 

[Jacew]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

Not true at all. IDK WTF you're talking about but you're on the other side of the planet & frankly i could care less.

I advocate NOS Blackburn Mullard & Amperex for pre's & Russian power tubes. Anyone that knows me will tell you the same thing.

Well, I care for a good advice and interesting & informal conversation over obnoxious blanket statements and unhelpful arguing.

Good batch of Mullard & Amperex NOS are very likely to be much better than new production tubes I agree. It's the avaiblity & price that I'm not that interested about them.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?



I got these 4 matched NOS/NIB Amperex Holland with Herleen codes for $300 bucks.
These each could sell for over $100 each.

Ebay is your friend.

 

[Jacew]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

I got these 4 matched NOS/NIB Amperex Holland with Herleen codes for $300 bucks.
These each could sell for over $100 each.

Ebay is your friend.

I paid 70€ (80$) for my last set of power amp tubes. They sound great and resale value doesn't matter since they will stay in the amp until they burn out.

Burning out NOS tubes in my home playing (or our band playing for that matter) would be a terrible waste anyway

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?








I don't "waste" tubes i use them. Amperex Holland & Blackburn Mullards from the 60's & 70's can last 10,000 hrs or more & ive not found any better preamp tubes for my Rock amps. Not surprising as i grew up in the 60's & 70's.
And i probably put less than 100 hours a year on any one amp [i have several] at any given time. Probably more like 50 hrs a year per amp.
Try getting 10K hrs out of a Chinese or Slovak tube/not possible.
All depends on what you want.

 

[Micha]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

Last night I take a look on several videos on you tube.
If I be honest, it seems that E34L 's ant KT77 are what i' m looking for.
They are very close to each other. Less sparkle. This typically crisp resonance of El 34 is not present by these tubes. I like that.

I will look to buy genalex KT77(but very expensive) or EH E34L's.

And now another question.
Wich preamp tubes? I think EH or Genallex ecc 83 and ecc81.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

There is not a EH E34L. The E34L is made by JJ.

 

[Jacew]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

Last night I take a look on several videos on you tube.
If I be honest, it seems that E34L 's ant KT77 are what i' m looking for.
They are very close to each other. Less sparkle. This typically crisp resonance of El 34 is not present by these tubes. I like that.

I will look to buy genalex KT77(but very expensive) or EH E34L's.

And now another question.
Wich preamp tubes? I think EH or Genallex ecc 83 and ecc81.

There is so many thinngs affecting the sound of youtube videos much more than tubes that there is not much point in them. Starting from the mic used in recording (and position!) to the guitar and amp itself, speakers, cabs, room sound et cetera.


Unless it's exactly same setup with just tubes swichted between takes and biased I wouldn't take any advice based on it.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

Plus how the tubes are biased.

I'm a little surpised that he found the KT77 to have less sparkle. Most reviews describe them as brighter. For example:

The Gold Lion KT77 is a drop in replacement for an EL34 or 6CA7. The sound however is not typical of an EL34 or 6CA7. It is more of a hybrid. The tube delivers all the mid punch you would expect in an EL34 but also has a top end that is more open and bright.

https://www.thetubestore.com/el34-6ca7-kt77-tube-reviews

Perhaps it the more open upper mids? It might be how they were biased? It might be a different brand of KT77? The Gold Lion KT77 is a true KT77 with 30 watt plate dissipation, instead of 25 watts PD, so would require a different bias setting. Biased the same as a regular EL34, assuming it is an adjustable bias amp in the video, it would be running cooler and that might make it sound more linear. The same applies to E34Ls.

 

[Micha]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

Here for comparison:

https://youtu.be/G6nhyOctVBU

I don't know if "sparkle" is the right word to describe what a mean.



When the palm mutes are playing we hear this typically grain of el34 .. It makes the sound less accurate.
It's a bit like the classic gain vs high gain distortions. I like it when the sound is more controlled, less British, more modern.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

Not feeling it Bro ... if that video is your definition of great tone lets just say were all different & call it a day.

FWIW some people like to shoot a gram of Heroin to wake up everyday. Myself i prefer fresh air & sunshine.

Thanks for the Necro-post tho.

 

[Demanic]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

Not feeling it Bro ... if that video is your definition of great tone lets just say were all different & call it a day.

FWIW some people like to shoot a gram of Heroin to wake up everyday. Myself i prefer fresh air & sunshine.

Thanks for the Necro-post tho.

Seems that I detect just a smidge of hyperbole.

Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

 

[Micha]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

Not feeling it Bro ... if that video is your definition of great tone lets just say were all different & call it a day.

FWIW some people like to shoot a gram of Heroin to wake up everyday. Myself i prefer fresh air & sunshine.

Thanks for the Necro-post tho.

No it's not my definition of great tone. Certainly not.
But we can easely hear differences between each tubes.


It's this typical el34 resonance that I don't like.
The other tubes are more dry, cleaner.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

Power tubes don't "resonate". They "boil electrons" thats about it.
Speaker cabs, strings & guitars resonate tho.

Good luck on your quest, you're getting warmer.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: EL34, 6Ca7, E34L or KT77 for Marshall amp?

When the palm mutes are playing we hear this typically grain of el34 .. It makes the sound less accurate.
It's a bit like the classic gain vs high gain distortions. I like it when the sound is more controlled, less British, more modern.

I think what he is attempting to describe is the typical congested (thicker harmonics) mids of EL34s vs the more open mids of beam tetrodes. The EL34 is a pentode. The 6CA7 and the KT77 are not pentodes. They are beam tetrodes like a 6L6. This helps them to sound more open and clear in the upper mids when they start getting pushed.

The EH 6CA7 will give you more open upper mids compared to standard EL34s. So will the GL KT77. As has been noted, the Gold Lion KT77 is the more expensive option.