Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

[stancaster]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

I bought them for testing and review purposes...like I do the majority of gear that I buy. While passive pickups are far more into my own personal preference, the sounds I heard from the Fluence have been more impressive to me than the other active pickups I've tried to-date.

There will most always be advancements in tech. Who in the 60s would have thought that a couple of 15-16k pickups from a few different guys would change the landscape of an entire sub-genre of guitar gear. Or how many years ago would amp-modeling have been unheard of. And while there are still people that prefer lower-wind vintage-style PAFs and single channel tube amps, a lot of players are glad that there is room for all kinds of options. It might seem a little silly to some to think otherwise.

I think in spite of all your scurrying around you just said you don't like them either and then jumped around about maybe someday they'll figure out how to make them sound better. Well someday maybe I will try something like them again but for now I think you and I both agree that regular old pickups like Seymour makes are what we want to have in our guitars for now.

 

[tonaholic]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

I think in spite of all your scurrying around you just said you don't like them either and then jumped around about maybe someday they'll figure out how to make them sound better. Well someday maybe I will try something like them again but for now I think you and I both agree that regular old pickups like Seymour makes are what we want to have in our guitars for now.

I don't think darth is doing anything disingenuous stancaster. It's understandable that you seem to have buyers remorse from your current set but let's not make any unfounded personal attacks or assumptions.

As I mentioned earlier, I really just think using any modern pickups toward the tone goals of classic/blues rock is a losing battle. We did our best to help and I don't think anyone recommended the moderns for a telecaster to play that kind of music anywhere.

I'm sure putting it back together will be much more what you originally fell in love with. Live and learn, eh?

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

I sure can understand why people are dumping these dogs. A lot of noise about fancy technology and sound switching and so on and so forth but they are just for fad jumpers that go after every new thing that comes along weather its bad or good and I think these things are not actually bad but they sure aren't as good as regular old pickups that are already proven. I'm gonna put my tele back together same as it was try and sell the Fluence pickups and buy a set of Seymour's Pearly Gates, I know I can depend on them and if their not what I want which I doubt I can do the 21 day return deal. Now that is something you can take to the bank.

I think in spite of all your scurrying around you just said you don't like them either and then jumped around about maybe someday they'll figure out how to make them sound better. Well someday maybe I will try something like them again but for now I think you and I both agree that regular old pickups like Seymour makes are what we want to have in our guitars for now.

Alright Stan, I'm really confused. You sound like you have your mind made up here of exactly what you want and always wanted. It almost seems like you had an agenda to get here. But I don't think that's possible, because your constant confusion and lack of understanding about everything guitar pickup related makes me think you must just need some education....or I'm talking to someone with multiple personalities. I say that because..

You said this...

I think you all have me sold on the Fluence pickup. I think the two voice option and coil tapping really gives a lot of versatility. Now I have a question for you what would be a good neck humbucker for my telecaster? I play like Clapton, Led Zep, Cream, Rolling Stones, Lynyrd Skynyrd...stuff like that so I need a pickup with some balls. I looked and listened to many of the Fluence Telecaster pickup demos and to be honest it souds to cheesy to me I mean that's just me it probably sounds great to people who are in to what old time telecasters should sound like but not like a telecaster with a humbucker neck pickup if you see what I mean.

Then juxtaposed it with....

I am getting more and more convinced that Fishman Fluence are the right pickups for me. Everything I've read and heard has been positive. now it comes down to what set to buy. From reading all the descriptions I think the Devin Townsend set would be best for what I need:
Voice 1 - "My heavy metal voice." Pole pieces for more "sonic havoc" when compared to blade magnets.

Voice 2 - "A low-gain, single coil, passive, sweet-sounding tone which I prefer in the single coil mode" that hits amps and compressors "just so." Creating a both-pickups-on clean tone and overall volume drop that enhances the effect of switching from dirty to clean sounds.
a good mix of sounds multiplied by the swithc option thing. Problen is I cannot find any demos or reviews of these pickups. Does anyone here have any first hand experience with them or some links to reviews and demos. The other problem is that I cannot find them for sale on ebay or Amazon. It seems strange that Fishman isn't distributing these pickups I thout they had been out for a while or am I wrong have they just been released?

So where did the metal part come from?


Then you didn't know about mixing actives and passives without having separate controls.

Whoaaa!!! Lets wait a minute here before I make a big mistake. I didn't know there was a problem mixing passive and active pickups. What kind of problems does it cause. I may have to rethink this whole shebang. maybe go for a set of Fluence humbuckers one for the bridge and one for the neck. what would be a good set for a Telecaster?

At this point we were keeping a tele bridge.

Then we got

What about a set of moderns with the ceramic in the neck position? How do you think that would work for a hot Telecaster?

Which I think no one responded to, because they didn't understand where in the world you were coming from.

You said...

That's good news what Fluence Humbucker would you recommend for a Telecaster to play stuff like Clapton, Led Zep, Cream, Rolling Stones, Lynyrd Skynyrd...ya know a pickup with gutsy sound.

Then later said this about a traditional tele set...

Sorry, but I think the Telecaster set they have is more for like Buck Owens and stuff like that ya know a lot of twang. I do't mean to be insulting or disrespectful in any way but it is a completely different telecaster set up and sound. The classic Telecaster was and is great for a broad range of music and one of the premiere guitars of all times but it is a different animal from the telecaster with a Humbucker neck set up. I think what I'm looking for is a high output Fluence humbucker that I can install and use with my existing bridge pickup. Thanks for the advice though.

Wrong, but fair enough....but then you...

Ordered a set of Moderns for my telecaster. Gonna have to redo the back end and I'm not sure what the wiring is going to involve but I'm sure I'll figure it out. After thinkin this and thinkin that I finnaly decided for 185 bucks I miswell take a shot if I don't like them I can probably sell them reasonably close to that and try something else who knows what.

At this point I was confused. I thought you had a "fat" tele, now you had a modern set coming, to play classic rock?

Then you went and...

Got the Moderns. Installed them with some difficulties. Pots are little bitty things and I have big hands wiring them especially the push pull conections was a real pain. The neck pickup slipped right in replacing the 59 I had in there just fine. Had to route a little for the bridge pickup and a lot for the control cavity. Got it all wired up and put the pots, switch and battery on a piece of pickguard I cut out and screwed it onto the body. Restrung adjusted the pickup height and was amazed that it worked first time. Put the ceramic in the neck and it sounds good nice to have the two tone switch for hot rhythm and hot lead. The Alinco pickup in the bridge was OK, I think I like the standard Tele pickup better. Not going to make any real judgements until I have some time to play it some more and get adjusted but my first impression is that Tonecholic was right I should have probably waited for the Telecaster pickups. The guitar really looks kluged together and I may or may not be able to work my way around that so in the long run it is sound I am looking for not a designer guitar...I wasn't blown away right out of the chute like I was hoping for but I'll work with them and see what happens. Will play it a couple of weeks and maybe try some that coil tapping they talk about.

Then you were upset that you had to route it out...well no joke? Then you mounted the other parts where? Did you route the body more for them too or are they on the face of the guitar? What about the bridge plate? Did you cut it off with a pair of wire snips?

You weren't blown away with a set of hard rock/metal pups when you play Zep and Stones stuff. I think we all saw this coming, especially you....saying you actually did any of the stuff you're claiming. Then you read into Darth's stuff that isn't there.

I'm flabbergasted, confused, and disappointed by this turn of events and the change of tenor in your posts.

 

[stancaster]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Looking back at it all the way you put it down and looking at the way I guess I sort of put a bad spin on DarthP's message I owe you all an apology. I'll just do like tonaholic says and sell these things and chalk it all down to a lesson learned and thank you all for helping to clear up a little this fuzy old head of mine. Now that I don't feel so nasty I guess it was worth a try and the reason it didn't work out was probably more my fault than trying to blame the pickups. Adios amigos, roca en hermanos.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Looking back at it all the way you put it down and looking at the way I guess I sort of put a bad spin on DarthP's message I owe you all an apology. I'll just do like tonaholic says and sell these things and chalk it all down to a lesson learned and thank you all for helping to clear up a little this fuzy old head of mine. Now that I don't feel so nasty I guess it was worth a try and the reason it didn't work out was probably more my fault than trying to blame the pickups. Adios amigos, roca en hermanos.

We've all done it. We've bought and sold guitars, pups, and amps we shouldn't have. I really think the classic set would've rocked your socks off. I hope you'll keep an open mind and try them if you ever see a set.

 

[tonaholic]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

We've all done it. We've bought and sold guitars, pups, and amps we shouldn't have. I really think the classic set would've rocked your socks off. I hope you'll keep an open mind and try them if you ever see a set.

MMMM can't wait to try Darth's sloppy seconds.

 

[stancaster]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

We've all done it. We've bought and sold guitars, pups, and amps we shouldn't have. I really think the classic set would've rocked your socks off. I hope you'll keep an open mind and try them if you ever see a set.

I do admit that I have gone about this the wrong way from the get go but I would not be honest if I did not say that it isn't just that I made the wrong choice in model but these new trch pickups don't sound as good to me as old fashion coil pickups. That is the truth of what my ears tell me and I did give these things a real good listen.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

I do admit that I have gone about this the wrong way from the get go but I would not be honest if I did not say that it isn't just that I made the wrong choice in model but these new trch pickups don't sound as good to me as old fashion coil pickups. That is the truth of what my ears tell me and I did give these things a real good listen.

That's fine, but you got pups voiced to sound DIFFERENT than traditional cool pups. The tele set, strat set, or classic set is going to be MUCH more in line with your influences. You got the fluence versions of an EMG 81 and 85. I mean, the standard bearer for EMGs for years was Zakk Wylde. You wanted "Heartbreaker" and you got "Bleed for Me". These were ill suited for what you wanted from the get go. It was a learning experience, I wish I lived close to you so you could try my classics.

Luke

 

[leevc5]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Not really.

You have asserted that GuitarDoc is wrong but supplied no supporting evidence.

I don't think Guitar Doc provided any supporting evidence. I did provide a narrative describing why I think his assertion is incorrect. I do have data in a graphic format that I can post if you think it necessary. However, I would like the GuitarDoc to provide some sort of support for position.

 

[leevc5]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

That's fine, but you got pups voiced to sound DIFFERENT than traditional cool pups. The tele set, strat set, or classic set is going to be MUCH more in line with your influences. You got the fluence versions of an EMG 81 and 85. I mean, the standard bearer for EMGs for years was Zakk Wylde. You wanted "Heartbreaker" and you got "Bleed for Me". These were ill suited for what you wanted from the get go. It was a learning experience, I wish I lived close to you so you could try my classics.

Luke

I agree. I went through the same process. I bought Moderns and was unhappy with them. I was fortunate enough to have someone swap me a pair of Classics for my Moderns. HUGE difference. The Classics, to the limit of my listening ability stand up equal to the 59s and Seth Lovers. That is why they are in my guitar now, they sound as good and offer V1 and V2 options on both bridge and neck.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

I will agree, stancaster when I saw that you'd picked up a set of Moderns all I could think of was how, of all the available Fluence models, that was the most wrong one for you! LOL No big deal, different people like different things!

As for the magnetic field, and what happens when pickups are close to the strings, it's very complicated. Basically the short answer is, it depends on the way you play. There's no other way around it. There's no right answer, aside from when the pickup is too close and does undesirable things to the string's natural vibration. Seymour likes a JB right up against the strings, with the screw poles adjusted very low. But, he also likes weak magnets, and plays with his fingers! So his situation is unique; it's non-standard.

And it's different from one pickup type to the next. A blade magnet can have a lower field, pole pieces have north or south poles next to other same polarity poles, so they reject, causing a teardrop/candle flame type shape where the flux comes out, but then is directed back (except on the outer 2 strings) Finally Alnico poles like a Strat or Tele are very strong directionally, AND they have neighboring poles focusing them, so generally they're adjusted lower than HB types.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. To say whether close or far produces more "clarity" or note definition is totally premature. It doesn't address the way the player plays, or what is next in the signal chain. If the first thing is a fuzz pedal, then yeah, lower pickups = more clarity. If the first thing is a clean compressor, then it could be the opposite. Plus an infinite combination of situations in between.

 

[tonaholic]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

OK so I've got the Gristle-tone, Classic and Modern sets on the way for my Suhr-T, DGT and CST24. I'll record before / after with the Suhr Classic T set, the PRS DGT set and the Custom 24 with \m/

In my AxeFxII.

And I'll use the exact same measured pickup heights.


...but I'm out of town for the next month and can't get back for this until probably early July

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

I kinda feel like what stancaster did was say "I really like PAF type pickups with low output so let me buy this Dimebucker/Distortion hybrid."

That would be like me buying a JB. I hate the JB. It's nowhere near what I want from a humbucker. Of course I'm not going to be happy.

I'm not writing off the entire Seymour Duncan line because I hate one pickup. I just hate that one model in particular.

I think if stancaster tried the Classics he'd be happy.

Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

What I see here is two cases of people that, although they basically like "classic" tone, actually ordered the "modern" tone version and of course were disappointed. But the question here is this: Why? What exactly was contained in their verbatim that made'em make that mistake, making'em even overlook the "name of the game", so to speak?

Food for thought?

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Pepe. Have you got your hands (and ears) on a Fluence Classic Humbucker pair yet?

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Pepe. Have you got your hands (and ears) on a Fluence Classic Humbucker pair yet?

Not even the scent of, in these neck of woods. How do you like'em, buddy? Something to write home about?

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

A couple of weeks ago, I temporarily installed a pair in my LTD EC401W. This is a 24-fret set neck guitar of LP outline but shallow, carved top, all-mahogany body. Kinda a halfway house between a Lester and an SG.

I doodled some blues-rock nonsense into Apple Logic then, intentionally ignored my recordings for two weeks in an attempt to be objective. Needless to say, my performances are unfit for public airing but the playback sounds are pretty much what I would hope for from a tidy Gibson solidbody electric guitar.

By way of comparison, I immediately plugged in my LP Standard P90 Goldtop. Unsurprisingly, the Gibson had more gravitas. It steamrollers its way through any mix, making the skinnier LTD guitar sound more like a nice SG.

Obviously, this comparison is highly unscientific. I really ought to A/B Fluence Classic humbuckers against an accepted reference pickup in the same guitar.

Long story short, these pickups can make an $800 import guitar sound as good as an $1800 American one. The dynamic "feel" is right. I anticipate buying more of these units.

 

[leevc5]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

What I see here is two cases of people that, although they basically like "classic" tone, actually ordered the "modern" tone version and of course were disappointed. But the question here is this: Why? What exactly was contained in their verbatim that made'em make that mistake, making'em even overlook the "name of the game", so to speak?

Food for thought?

Déjà vu LtKjoja. You made this assertion before and for me the answer to the choice of the Moderns initially is the same as before.
From the Fishman WEB site describing the Modern:

"Voice 1:

Modern Active
The ideal active alnico sound. Full, round, and boosted, but with unprecedented articulation and dynamics.


Voice 2:

Crisp, clean and fluid
The clean, crisp neck humbucker tone you’ve always wanted, without the thin, plinky sound you don’t."

At the time I went for the moderns this description sounded much like what I was looking for.











Déjà vu

 

[leevc5]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

The root of part of the issue I think is that two people said they prefer the sound of coil pickups:
Darth Phineas "While passive pickups are far more into my own personal preference, the sounds I heard from the Fluence have been more impressive to me than the other active pickups I've tried to-date."

stancaster: "I did not say that it isn't just that I made the wrong choice in model but these new trch pickups don't sound as good to me as old fashion coil pickups. That is the truth of what my ears tell me and I did give these things a real good listen."

As for me I like the Classics and think they sound every bit as good as the coil wound 59s and Seth Lovers. Maybe my hearing is not as discerning or maybe they have a preconceived dislike for active pickups who knows.

So what?

 

[leevc5]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

I will agree, stancaster when I saw that you'd picked up a set of Moderns all I could think of was how, of all the available Fluence models, that was the most wrong one for you! LOL No big deal, different people like different things!

As for the magnetic field, and what happens when pickups are close to the strings, it's very complicated. Basically the short answer is, it depends on the way you play. There's no other way around it. There's no right answer, aside from when the pickup is too close and does undesirable things to the string's natural vibration. Seymour likes a JB right up against the strings, with the screw poles adjusted very low. But, he also likes weak magnets, and plays with his fingers! So his situation is unique; it's non-standard.

And it's different from one pickup type to the next. A blade magnet can have a lower field, pole pieces have north or south poles next to other same polarity poles, so they reject, causing a teardrop/candle flame type shape where the flux comes out, but then is directed back (except on the outer 2 strings) Finally Alnico poles like a Strat or Tele are very strong directionally, AND they have neighboring poles focusing them, so generally they're adjusted lower than HB types.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. To say whether close or far produces more "clarity" or note definition is totally premature. It doesn't address the way the player plays, or what is next in the signal chain. If the first thing is a fuzz pedal, then yeah, lower pickups = more clarity. If the first thing is a clean compressor, then it could be the opposite. Plus an infinite combination of situations in between.

So as to refine this very good explanation in hopes of achieving closure with the issue Funkfingers seems to have with me let's try this:
The GuitarDoc's post that started it all:

I said: "years off experience has demonstrated that the closer I can get the pickup to the strings the better definition I get.
Guitar Doc replied: I think your "years of experience" have mistreated/misled/misdirected you. If the only variable is pup height, then generally speaking you will get more volume, more base, more mids and less clarity or definition by moving the pup close to the strings."
1. My statement was subjective and based on my playing style;
2. I finger pick;
3. I rarely use pedals except the SD pup booster with my strats.
With those three qualifications and the frankfalbo information I think it is fair to say that my original statement was correct and GuitarDoc's diagnosis was incorrect as it pertains to my subjective assertion.

Much ado about nothing. I hope funkfingers we can now relax and agree that within it's context my post was valid and GuitarDoc's diagnosis for my case was incorrect.