Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

There's so much accumulated ill will on this forum (even well before I began posting regularly) that I was surprised forum pickups were even a thing, like how there was enough agreement to result in a StraBro 90 or a BroBucker seemed hard to fathom and I was looking forward to seeing something magically come together, but in the end, this what has happened is pretty much what I would have expected.

According to legend, the Brobucker was creating during a golden era. Before the dark times. Before the board was overrun by shredders, metalheads, and worst of all, members recruited through Facebook.*
The biggest debate was whether it should have an Alnico 2 or 5.

The Brobucker was still a fairly unified vision, and it was a standard layout. It was the only one that still gets praise to this day. I fear that will never happen again.






*sarcasm

 

[uOpt]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Almost at the 1-year anniversary of the last design round. FWIW I didn't see that in time to vote.

 

[Maggot]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Maybe we should entertain the notion that there are enough different kinds of pickups in world. And if there's not everything that everyone wants, since when did having everything you want contribute to good music? It seems like part of the issue here is that our needs are pretty well taken care of.

Jah knows, it woulda been a catastrophe if Link Wray or Hubert Sumlin had been able to choose between 400 different kinds of pickups and amps, or if all the 50s and 60s cats had had their wishes granted for amps that never break up.

Then what am I doing here, you might ask? Just living life in a consumer society like the rest of y'all.

Seriously, my new suggestion (as unsolicited as can be) is put something cool in a dog ear cover and call it a day. I was seriously hamstrung trying to replace pickups in my Epiphone P-93. And there were 3 of them. I woulda put someone's kid through college if I hadn't sold the guitar.

 

[superpete]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

According to legend, the Brobucker was creating during a golden era. Before the dark times. Before the board was overrun by shredders, metalheads, and worst of all, members recruited through Facebook.*
The biggest debate was whether it should have an Alnico 2 or 5.

The Brobucker was still a fairly unified vision, and it was a standard layout. It was the only one that still gets praise to this day. I fear that will never happen again.

The brobucker was created in pretty much the opposite way this pickup was attempted. It was a bunch of forumites talking about a glaring hole in the SD lineup, a mid output PAF styled humbucker. It was a pretty unified vision that was then brought to the custom shop. The forum was a lot more civil back then as well if memory serves me correctly (it may not).

I have no issues with how this round of forum pickup was voted on, but the constant attacks on other designs and petty jabs at each other has made me lose desire to want whatever pickup is decided on.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Are you sure about that?
View attachment 61424

I'll be damned...

Ok. I stand corrected. I DID say that... but I didn't REALLY mean it... and I didn't inhale!!!

I kid, I kid.

Man, I'm ooooooooooold!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

It's all good Kojak. I do think the idea works best as a hybrid though. Something about have 2 different winding patterns makes for an interesting effect.

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

The brobucker was created in pretty much the opposite way this pickup was attempted. It was a bunch of forumites talking about a glaring hole in the SD lineup, a mid output PAF styled humbucker. It was a pretty unified vision that was then brought to the custom shop. The forum was a lot more civil back then as well if memory serves me correctly (it may not).

That's what I've been saying. But what happened then could not happen now. I tried when I started the idea thread in January. My hope was that a good idea would come along and everyone would jump onboard.

The Brobucker also came with several spec requirements, granted, those specs were logical parts of a recipe. The spec talk cannot work now because of the dispersed interests.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Everybody relax. It's just a tie. It isn't like something horrible is going on. We came up with two cool ideas, and we're split on them. BFD. There is no reason to be talking about how horribly this forum pickup went just because of some close votes. We just make some adjustments and have a re-vote. My ideas for adjustments are contained several posts back: represent/describe the choices better (hopefully by demonstrating prototypes in action), bar further discussion once that poll opens, and close voting to accounts that were not created before the first of the year.

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

I don't think anybody is TOO worked up. I'm just disappointed that I was not able to gather and/or maintain more interest in the project.

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Backtracking now would be foolish and would probably just lead to even more conflicts. Some version of these 2 concepts have remained the most popular. I don't even think we should re-frame the Zebro. We recognized that it will not be a true p90 and that was not the important part of the original idea anyway. It was about having a different way of blending single coil and humbucker properties.

I'm definitely liking the idea of demoing both. Perhaps hearing them in action could even bring more members in on this.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Truth is I do remember the good old times (not that old) where most people were civil except for that lone court jester (was never the same but usually only just one) with the occasional tough-guy that was sooner rather than later driven away.
I still remember when we'd mention TGP to illustrate the contrast in attitude and elitism. It appears as the forum grew older these things sipped in all the same. I still like visiting here as this forum holds a special place in my heart and memory but it indeed is not what it once was.

So, to business. Itsabass has a point. But people that want the two ideas to be construction-agnostic have a point as well. I humbly re-suggest the following (as always subject to change):

The two pickups we suggest are:

• The ZeBro:
  Intended as a drop in replacement in a humbucker route, the Zebro is intended to be a hum-cancelling pickup that aims to faithfully (as possible) recreate a P-90 coil voicing. The tone should be aggressive with full, great harmonics.
• The Yet-To-Be-Named-Humbucker:
  Inspired by the SD 59/Custom, the YTBNH is based on the concept of refining the aforementioned pickup but with more upper mid focus, more controlled bass, cleaner and clearer while retaining the telltale sonic complexity of mismatched-coil humbuckers!
  An additional request by many forum members is that the neck pickup of the set would match the current SD 59/Custom pickup as a balanced set

The above descriptions are based on DarkMatter's own at the OP of this thread while removing any hints of construction direction.

Comments/suggestions?

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Intended as a drop in replacement in a humbucker route, the Zebro is intended to be a hum-cancelling pickup that aims to faithfully (as possible) recreate a P-90 coil voicing. The tone should be aggressive with full, great harmonics.
Comments/suggestions?

My only suggestion is get a clear definition of whats meant by P90 tone. I know of at least a few that were hoping for low output and others hoping for something louder. So define exactly what constitutes P90 tone. Full with great harmonics says little.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Usually, aggressive means louder, could be wrong though.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Usually, aggressive means louder, could be wrong though.

Not always, but i mean actually define the rough output level cause to some a P90 might be hot cause they normally play vintage output singles... To guys who play EMG's they might be pretty weak.

So whats the baseline? To me when you say P90 tone I think of the tone that came from my uncles 65 SG special. It was rude and aggressive but about as loud as a medium out put humbucker. They lack the high end glassiness of vintage strat pups. They have a rudeness in the midrange and are fat but not overly so. The bass is firm but not particularly percussive. The attack is easy feeling but not spongy.

To me this is my idea of P90 tone

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Ditto!

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Not always, but i mean actually define the rough output level cause to some a P90 might be hot cause they normally play vintage output singles... To guys who play EMG's they might be pretty weak.

So whats the baseline? To me when you say P90 tone I think of the tone that came from my uncles 65 SG special. It was rude and aggressive but about as loud as a medium out put humbucker. They lack the high end glassiness of vintage strat pups. They have a rudeness in the midrange and are fat but not overly so. The bass is firm but not particularly percussive. The attack is easy feeling but not spongy.

To me this is my idea of P90 tone

That sounds like a great description. Aggressive to me is something like a 78 whereas an Alnico 2 pro would be the exact opposite. It should not have a smooth, pretty clean tone.

 

[Maggot]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

P-90s should have a smooth even tone when dialed, back and get ornery when cranked. I think, ideally it'd have a little more heft than a Phat Cat, but there are limitations due to hum-cancelling. I was thinking maybe something along the lines, sonically, of a P-90ified BG-1400. That's the most exciting-sounding Duncan Stack. Maybe slightly lower output but wider-sounding in the mids and just a hair looser in the bass, so it doesn't get mistaken for a classic bucker when cranked.

 

[DreX]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

I say come up with a name for the hybrid, declare them both winners and let the admins know there are two forum pickups, and if they say no to that, then there's no forum pickup. I don't see how it matters if it's officiated though, I'm not expecting a big discount or anything. However, even if I were to order a Zebro of my own accord, I'd still like some clarification on how the half coil will be fabricated to ensure that I'm not just getting a 3+3.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

My idea of P90 tone is a very full sound along the whole midrange spectrum with a spike in the upper mids, relaxed single-coil low end, single coil upper harmonics, output that would equate to a moderate output humbucker, and rolled off treble when compared to a strat or tele bridge pickup. I would like that in a humbucker casing with more emphasis on natural harmonics to make leads scream, and improved note definition for open chords under gain. That would be perfect IMO. Hum cancelling would be a big plus, but if it compromises the tone too much, I can live without it. Maybe put a little extra thought into the design to make the hum more bearable.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

I say come up with a name for the hybrid, declare them both winners and let the admins know there are two forum pickups, and if they say no to that, then there's no forum pickup. I don't see how it matters if it's officiated though, I'm not expecting a big discount or anything. However, even if I were to order a Zebro of my own accord, I'd still like some clarification on how the half coil will be fabricated to ensure that I'm not just getting a 3+3.

yes. this. Why not both? The forum clearly wants both. Let's make the zebro and see how it ends up, tonally. The hybrid, great.