Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

  • Zebro

    Votes: 35 50.0%
  • Hybrid

    Votes: 35 50.0%

  • Total voters
    70
  • Poll closed .
Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

I might be wrong with this, however I'm NOT having high hopes for this design.

I see it as a solution looking for a problem; the exact opposite of "form follow function".

But don't mind me. I'm just a grumpy old man. ;)

I think I get what you are trying to say.. and you know what it has helped me to choose .
 
Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

I might be wrong with this, however I'm NOT having high hopes for this design.

I see it as a solution looking for a problem; the exact opposite of "form follow function".

But don't mind me. I'm just a grumpy old man. ;)

The problem is that it doesn't exist yet.
 
Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Forgive me if this is like lobbying too close to the polling place (I can delete if anyone has a problem), but here's why i've voted for the Zebro's:

  1. It's a unique and interesting pickup design that addresses a thin spot in SD's lineup (HB sized p90) while adding something new (hum canceling)
  2. Based on the success of the StraBro90's, I trust that it'll sound great. There are similarities in construction with the small ceramic helper mags.
  3. It's now been through the forum pickup gauntlet twice and this design has garnered a lot of interest. It won't be another Fuglybucker.
  4. I don't think it's as risky a design as people have been concerned about. To quote DarkMatter, quoting Frank Falbo, addressing concerns earlier in the process on the Zebro's magnet:

I was wrong about the magnets in a split design.

Here is what Frank said;
"MJ has made plenty of Z-Coil replacement pickups out of Alnico Strat rods. I have a G&L Comanche and am pretty well versed in those pickups. A split Alnico pole "Z-style in a humbucker mount" would be a great pickup. If you wanted to make it sound a little more P90-ish you could have one center magnet spanning the entire width and two flanking magnets each covering 3 strings. You wouldn't want the flanking magnets to span the entire length because with no return path the magnets would fight one another and it would be total flux chaos."

Later he added this;
"I think the best fake single coil sounds from the Z format have been rod magnets. There's the ones MJ has done, and PRS had a Fralin design on a CE bolt neck that were great too.

But you're right, if the attempt was to make something with a P90 flavor it would be base magnets and poles. If it were me? I'd do 3 screw poles and half a keeper bar on the bass side, and 3 slugs on the treble side. Each of them shortie bobbins. That way you'd have meatier treble strings, and a little more twang on the bass strings. And guess what you could do? Flip it around if you wanted the reverse.

Due to dimensional limitations of Alnico, you'd probably be stuck with ceramic. But with a small enough ceramic, one that matched the gauss strength of an Alnico center magnet, you could create a stable magnetic circuit with Alnico down the middle and small ceramic flanking magnets. Wheee-YOW!!"

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Frank worked on the P-Rails when he was at SD.
This discussion is what got me and a lot of others excited about the first vote on Zebro's as the forum pickup. Back then it was called the Zed-90, but Zebro is a better name for it, heheh.
 
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Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Man, I like my Fuglys in my Schecter.

Hehehe - no disrespect to the Fuglys in your avatar pic. I meant that I think there will be plenty of demand for the Zebro based on the interest in it from both last and this year's forum pickup votes.

iirc, the Fuglybucker process resulted in a pickup that not many people felt they could use, due to the size & unique bezels. When it came time to buy, I don't know how many people bought them...
 
Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Forgive me if this is like lobbying too close to the polling place (I can delete if anyone has a problem), but here's why i've voted for the Zebro's:
/QUOTE]

So long as it remains civil and respectful, I see nothing wrong with making a case for or against either option.
 
Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

It's cool, I like them so much I got a second set. Like I said earlier though, I think these 2 choices would make a great sounding set.
 
Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Wow, that close... I'm still in the Zebro camp. I am very curious how this will play out.
 
Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

To me, a hybrid is something unexciting. It is nothing really new. The Z provides something very different than the current SD lineup.
 
Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

I was just thinking about that. We could do a second poll asking everyone if they would actually buy the pickup they didn't vote for.
 
Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Duncan needs a neck HB with the high-end, clarity, and versatility of a hybrid.
 
Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

The way I think about the whole thing, this is not about making something different; it's about making something good. Tone is the aim here.

But even accepting the "more different" reasoning for voting one way or the other, the hybrid is actually the "more different" option IMO. It would be far different than any neck humbucker Duncan makes or has ever made, both tonally and techincally (having heavily mismatched coils, and in the neck position). We know what hybrids are like; the tone is somewhat predictable, and extremely desirable IMO. I think a lot of people would love this pickup, and it would add a significantly different flavor to a lot of axes out there.

The Zebro, on the other hand is only different in that it will use trimmed-down bobbins instead of full-length bobbins. We have no actual knowledge of what advantage this could possibly offer. It's nothing but a possibly meaningless technical spec for the Custom Shop to be held to. It seems like it's trying to be different just for the sake of being different, not for any specific tonal reason...and even then, it's not really that different anyhow. It's just an adjustable version of a Mustang bass pickup. How different could that really sound than other options out there? And if it does sound that different, will it really be in a good way? I certainly am no fan of hum-canceling singles, and I know I am not the only one. How many people would actually want one of these things for any reason other than just screwing around? I.e. who will buy it because they think it will actually give them something tonally that they can't get now?

The hybrid would also sell better to the general public IMO, and would make the '59/C into a factory set. It has far better chance to make it as a potential addition to the standard catalog (which would be a first for a forum-designed pickup). I would take far more pride in having something that we designed actually accepted into the standard Duncan catalog than I would in having designed some one-run-and-done pickup that ends up in only a dozen guitars throughout history.

Also, the hybrid option includes a possibly awesome bridge pickup that is different than the current '59/C: a slightly thinned-out, scrappier '59/C Hybrid. Yummy.

The hybrid also retains the stock "sleeper" look. That matters to me, and maybe to others too. I'd probably never use something that looked like the Zebro in any of my current guitars.

Not only does the hybrid fill a much larger hole in SD's catalog in terms of TONE (which is what it's all about), but it would benefit them more in the business sense, as they could probably sell loads of the things to "regular" (i.e. non-Forum) customers. I.e., we could give something back to the company for dealing with our idiotic asses at all.

Also, I think that naming the hybrid a hybrid is turning some people off. It isn't really going to be a hybrid of existing coils; it's going to be a purpose-made neck match to the new bridge pickup and the existent '59/C Hybrid. While we probably want it to have significantly mismatched coils in order to match the '59/C bridge pickup's character, it is not being made simply by putting together existing production coils. "Mismatched coils" are not the same thing as a "hybrid." Hybrids by definition take their parts from two other pickups. "Mismatching coils" don't need to come from two already existent pickups; they can be designed and wound specifically to have that mismatch. The neck pickup is more than likely just going to be something along the lines of an underwound '59/C, not a true hybrid, made by pilfering coils from existing pickups.

What really would have made this much easier to decide on would have been to have the CS build and demo one set of each...and then to have voted. Something tells me that if we already had demos of each potential set, the hybrid option would be smoking the Zebro option in the vote.
 
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Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

I would need to know how much each would cost before deciding.

It would also be nice to hear the Custom Shop's opinion on either pickup. I'm sure if we were communicating with them on a one to one basis for a typical custom shop order, they would offer feedback to the individual customer, but so far we've heard nothing from them about either design.
 
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Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Personally, I want a p90-like humbucker. I don't care about the cosmetics so long as it works tonally. Originally the idea was to combine a couple ideas which are road tested and to provide a sonic niche duncan does not have. Personally, there is a 0% chance I would buy a hybrid, and unless I am killed before it comes out, a 100% chance I would get a p90 voiced SD humbucker. The hybrid is IMO something that is pretty much achievable with off the shelf pickups. Personally, I'd rather have something that I can't just do myself. (I can make a hybrid)

Going down in history as a first forum design to get made production by keeping things bland and pedestrian (and hybrids are kind of pedestrian) is in my opinion a waste of an opportunity to get something unique and awesome made. I would love to see something tasteful, but unique get made.
 
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