Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
- Thread starter DrNewcenstein
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DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
Pickup ground wires should go to the system ground (pot casing, jack ground, bridge ground) instead of switch poles. From there, you jump grounding wires to the switch tabs where you want the pickup coil connected to that tab and in that switch position to be grounded. For example, to get the slug coil active, ground the red + white with either green or black to hot and the other to ground. To get parallel operation, ground the white + green and send the red + black to hot.
While it's theoretically possible to wire the pickup bare wire to those places on the switch directly, you'll still need jumpers from the switch to the system ground.
As for the various wiring diagrams for 2-wafer rotary switches, there's really no "standard" format from what I've seen. Jackson's diagram in the old 80s electronics catalog was the worst - looked like a bowl of spaghetti to me. Didn't help that it was the size of a postage stamp.
But, the diagram template you posted is closer to what you'd hold in your hand - the inside wafer (closest to the knob) has tabs around the outside, and the bottom wafer's tab are inside the perimeter of the wafer. While both wafers are constructed the same, the inside wafer's tabs have to be bent further out to keep them from touching the bottom tabs once wired. The Common tabs for both wafers are in the center.
As for the diagram itself being correct, I can't say from looking at it, as multi-pole switches like the rotary and Superswitch still give me fits. I can set them up as 3 or 4 different switches via push/pulls, but the one I posted above is the most advanced I've ever done with one.
@DrNewcenstein
I want to make a full wiring diagram for my idea, but there seem to be different types of rotary switches and wiring diagrams (e.g. two separate wafer diagrams) for them. Would a template like the one used for this diagram be correct?
Pickup ground wires should go to the system ground (pot casing, jack ground, bridge ground) instead of switch poles. From there, you jump grounding wires to the switch tabs where you want the pickup coil connected to that tab and in that switch position to be grounded. For example, to get the slug coil active, ground the red + white with either green or black to hot and the other to ground. To get parallel operation, ground the white + green and send the red + black to hot.
While it's theoretically possible to wire the pickup bare wire to those places on the switch directly, you'll still need jumpers from the switch to the system ground.
As for the various wiring diagrams for 2-wafer rotary switches, there's really no "standard" format from what I've seen. Jackson's diagram in the old 80s electronics catalog was the worst - looked like a bowl of spaghetti to me. Didn't help that it was the size of a postage stamp.
But, the diagram template you posted is closer to what you'd hold in your hand - the inside wafer (closest to the knob) has tabs around the outside, and the bottom wafer's tab are inside the perimeter of the wafer. While both wafers are constructed the same, the inside wafer's tabs have to be bent further out to keep them from touching the bottom tabs once wired. The Common tabs for both wafers are in the center.
As for the diagram itself being correct, I can't say from looking at it, as multi-pole switches like the rotary and Superswitch still give me fits. I can set them up as 3 or 4 different switches via push/pulls, but the one I posted above is the most advanced I've ever done with one.
omg81
New member
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
Thanks, but I meant only the switch itself from that diagram, not any of the wiring displayed there (didn't even look what it's about). So I'll use a similar one for my diagram.
But:
Well if I want to put two pickups in series, one of the ground wires has to go to the switch, no? And the switch then connects it either to ground or to the other pickup's hot wire. That's what I did with my Phat Cat SG and it works fine.
Or so I thought. While thinking about this, I checked again what the bare wire in humbuckers is for (as in, why two ground wires?). SD says it's for shielding and grounding. So if I understood that correctly, bare goes to pickup shielding (always grounded) and green is just south start. Which aside from the rare occasion that you want two pickups in series, is usually grounded too.
So, two HB's in parallel:
HB1 green -> ground
HB1 bare -> ground
HB2 green -> ground
HB2 bare -> ground
In series:
HB1 green -> ground
HB1 bare -> ground
HB2 green -> HB1 black
HB2 bare -> ground
However, the Phat Cat I already put in series has no separate bare wire. It just has a hot output and a ground+shield braid. My switching:
Parallel:
PC1 braid -> ground
PC2 braid -> ground
Series:
PC1 braid -> ground
PC2 braid -> PC1 hot
The problem with this is that PC2's shielding now isn't connected to ground anymore. Instead it's in the signal chain between the two pickups. It does work somehow, but now I don't know if and how different it would be if PC2's shielding was correctly grounded instead?
I wanted to make a wiring diagram of this, but now I suspect it's faulty.
Thanks, but I meant only the switch itself from that diagram, not any of the wiring displayed there (didn't even look what it's about). So I'll use a similar one for my diagram.
But:
Well if I want to put two pickups in series, one of the ground wires has to go to the switch, no? And the switch then connects it either to ground or to the other pickup's hot wire. That's what I did with my Phat Cat SG and it works fine.
Or so I thought. While thinking about this, I checked again what the bare wire in humbuckers is for (as in, why two ground wires?). SD says it's for shielding and grounding. So if I understood that correctly, bare goes to pickup shielding (always grounded) and green is just south start. Which aside from the rare occasion that you want two pickups in series, is usually grounded too.
So, two HB's in parallel:
HB1 green -> ground
HB1 bare -> ground
HB2 green -> ground
HB2 bare -> ground
In series:
HB1 green -> ground
HB1 bare -> ground
HB2 green -> HB1 black
HB2 bare -> ground
However, the Phat Cat I already put in series has no separate bare wire. It just has a hot output and a ground+shield braid. My switching:
Parallel:
PC1 braid -> ground
PC2 braid -> ground
Series:
PC1 braid -> ground
PC2 braid -> PC1 hot
The problem with this is that PC2's shielding now isn't connected to ground anymore. Instead it's in the signal chain between the two pickups. It does work somehow, but now I don't know if and how different it would be if PC2's shielding was correctly grounded instead?
I wanted to make a wiring diagram of this, but now I suspect it's faulty.
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DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
Of the Gibson 2-conductor pickups I've had, the braid is wrapped around a cloth sleeve, and the hot passes through the center of the sleeve. The braid goes to ground and the inner wire goes to hot (switch, pot, etc) but you can invert the wiring so that the braid goes to hot and the coil wire goes to ground. I'd imagine SD's 2-conductor "vintage-style" pickups (59, PhatCat, etc) operate on the same principle.
With SD's 4-conductor pickups, however, I'm pretty sure the bare wire is only for ground, as the coils have useable Start and Finish wires, unlike a 2-conductor where they're hard-wired for a single operation style (series) and truncate in one hot and one ground.
Of the Gibson 2-conductor pickups I've had, the braid is wrapped around a cloth sleeve, and the hot passes through the center of the sleeve. The braid goes to ground and the inner wire goes to hot (switch, pot, etc) but you can invert the wiring so that the braid goes to hot and the coil wire goes to ground. I'd imagine SD's 2-conductor "vintage-style" pickups (59, PhatCat, etc) operate on the same principle.
With SD's 4-conductor pickups, however, I'm pretty sure the bare wire is only for ground, as the coils have useable Start and Finish wires, unlike a 2-conductor where they're hard-wired for a single operation style (series) and truncate in one hot and one ground.
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BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
Try here. The fact that the Cool Rails is single-coil sized and that you are planning to use a 250k pot instead of a 500k won't make any difference to how it will be wired.
Try here. The fact that the Cool Rails is single-coil sized and that you are planning to use a 250k pot instead of a 500k won't make any difference to how it will be wired.
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
Thanks BriGuy1968. That's the diagram that I found too and used. I think it has has the PU coil tapped. My guess is that red and black need to be connected to 1st terminal of volume POT and (green, white and bare) need to be soldered to ground for humbucking. Wanted to get definate answer first before trying.
Thanks BriGuy1968. That's the diagram that I found too and used. I think it has has the PU coil tapped. My guess is that red and black need to be connected to 1st terminal of volume POT and (green, white and bare) need to be soldered to ground for humbucking. Wanted to get definate answer first before trying.
BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
When you have the red and white connected together, green and bare to ground, and black to hot (like in the diagram), S-D pickups are operating as humbuckers (in series)... so if you want it to work as normal, the diagram I pointed you toward is the one to use.
If you're looking for a coil-tapped version, they have that one too. [emoji41]
[emoji450]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]
When you have the red and white connected together, green and bare to ground, and black to hot (like in the diagram), S-D pickups are operating as humbuckers (in series)... so if you want it to work as normal, the diagram I pointed you toward is the one to use.
If you're looking for a coil-tapped version, they have that one too. [emoji41]
[emoji450]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
Sorry. The PU I have is an SVR-1 Vintage Rails not Cool Rails. I think this PU is different from typical humbucker wiring. Here is the wiring diagram that comes with it. http://www.seymourduncan.com/images/products/electric/stratocaster/501015-130.pdf Notice how black red are paired to the switch and green,white and bare are grounded. Any thoughts?
Sorry. The PU I have is an SVR-1 Vintage Rails not Cool Rails. I think this PU is different from typical humbucker wiring. Here is the wiring diagram that comes with it. http://www.seymourduncan.com/images/products/electric/stratocaster/501015-130.pdf Notice how black red are paired to the switch and green,white and bare are grounded. Any thoughts?
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
Description of SVR-1 from S-D website:
"description
Vintage Rails use a unique split rail, twin coil design and special (parallel) wiring to achieve true, vintage, single-coil tone without hum. The sound is clean, clear and bright, with all of the "quack" you love in the notch positions. Though tonally similar to Duckbuckers, the rails design eliminates any potential dropout in string bending. Comes with four-conductor cable. USA Patent No. 5,525,750."
Description of SVR-1 from S-D website:
"description
Vintage Rails use a unique split rail, twin coil design and special (parallel) wiring to achieve true, vintage, single-coil tone without hum. The sound is clean, clear and bright, with all of the "quack" you love in the notch positions. Though tonally similar to Duckbuckers, the rails design eliminates any potential dropout in string bending. Comes with four-conductor cable. USA Patent No. 5,525,750."
BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
Oh, okay. The diagram you have is running the coils in parallel instead of series. Both ways will cancel hum. Running in parallel will sound more single-coilish. I would say try them both and choose the one that sounds like what you want.
[emoji450]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]
Oh, okay. The diagram you have is running the coils in parallel instead of series. Both ways will cancel hum. Running in parallel will sound more single-coilish. I would say try them both and choose the one that sounds like what you want.
[emoji450]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
Ok, question about this diagram that I didn't think of until just now: I see the bridge pickup jumping straight to the 500K, but it's on the same side of the switch as the singles, and the Common on that side goes to the 250K. Does rolling the 250K around when the bridge is selected have any effect?
Ok, question about this diagram that I didn't think of until just now: I see the bridge pickup jumping straight to the 500K, but it's on the same side of the switch as the singles, and the Common on that side goes to the 250K. Does rolling the 250K around when the bridge is selected have any effect?
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
Going back through the thread to work on suggestions:
Is there anything specific you're looking for here? Most of the SSS diagrams I'm seeing also include a 5-way, which lends itself naturally to auto-splits for all 3 pickups (assuming 3 or 4-conductor). I can think of a few push/pull options off-hand, such as phase reversal, inserting a given pickup anywhere (bridge+neck is really the only one, since default wiring allows bridge+middle and middle+neck), series/parallel, and maybe one coil of adjacent pickups if we're talking rails.
Then there's various passive circuit mods like treble bleed, varitone, that Cocked Wah thing mentioned in another thread.
Hmmm. Actually all those sound like fine candidates for diagrams. Wondering if the Cocked Wah mod can be done so the pot it's attached to acts as a frequency sweep?
Going back through the thread to work on suggestions:
Is there anything specific you're looking for here? Most of the SSS diagrams I'm seeing also include a 5-way, which lends itself naturally to auto-splits for all 3 pickups (assuming 3 or 4-conductor). I can think of a few push/pull options off-hand, such as phase reversal, inserting a given pickup anywhere (bridge+neck is really the only one, since default wiring allows bridge+middle and middle+neck), series/parallel, and maybe one coil of adjacent pickups if we're talking rails.
Then there's various passive circuit mods like treble bleed, varitone, that Cocked Wah thing mentioned in another thread.
Hmmm. Actually all those sound like fine candidates for diagrams. Wondering if the Cocked Wah mod can be done so the pot it's attached to acts as a frequency sweep?
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
Put in a push-pull and hook up the pickup like this:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=ssp
And you'll be able to switch between series and the SVR-1's standard parallel wiring.
Put in a push-pull and hook up the pickup like this:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=ssp
And you'll be able to switch between series and the SVR-1's standard parallel wiring.
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
And here's the "formatted" version:
Thanks to BriGuy1968 for the clarifications :beerchug:
And here's the "formatted" version:
Thanks to BriGuy1968 for the clarifications :beerchug:
Brandenburg
New member
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
here is an updated version of the wiring on my strat..i wired the guitar up a few weeks ago but i never updated the drawing..dont really need it but i want it for archival purposes.. i changed it from its previous incarnation by adding an always on bridge mod and replacing the schaller mega E switch with a standard 5 way.. didnt really care for the mega E like i thought i would. Much happier now.. very versatile tone machine.. i think im done but then again i might put add phase switch for each humbucker or atleast for one of the humbuckers
one of the only guitars that the tone control really gets any use..
here is an updated version of the wiring on my strat..i wired the guitar up a few weeks ago but i never updated the drawing..dont really need it but i want it for archival purposes.. i changed it from its previous incarnation by adding an always on bridge mod and replacing the schaller mega E switch with a standard 5 way.. didnt really care for the mega E like i thought i would. Much happier now.. very versatile tone machine.. i think im done but then again i might put add phase switch for each humbucker or atleast for one of the humbuckers
one of the only guitars that the tone control really gets any use..
BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
Had an idea the other day as I was contemplating changes I'd like to make to Rachel...
She has a typical 2-Volume, 2-Tone setup (like a Les Paul) with the usual dependent volume controls. I've been toying with the idea of going to independent controls because I think I'd like to be able to blend, but am not sure if I'll like it better or not. All of a sudden I got this crazy thought of having my cake and eating it too... a switch that would allow me to choose whether it was set for dependent or independent controls. So here's what I came up with (it would need to be a 2-way 4P/DT switch).
I ordered a couple of 2-way 4P/DT switches, so eventually I'm gonna give it a try... but who knows when I'll find the time.
Had an idea the other day as I was contemplating changes I'd like to make to Rachel...
She has a typical 2-Volume, 2-Tone setup (like a Les Paul) with the usual dependent volume controls. I've been toying with the idea of going to independent controls because I think I'd like to be able to blend, but am not sure if I'll like it better or not. All of a sudden I got this crazy thought of having my cake and eating it too... a switch that would allow me to choose whether it was set for dependent or independent controls. So here's what I came up with (it would need to be a 2-way 4P/DT switch).
- Question #1: Do you think it will work?
- Question #2: Do you think it would be something people would want? (Besides me, that is!)
I ordered a couple of 2-way 4P/DT switches, so eventually I'm gonna give it a try... but who knows when I'll find the time.
Gaspasser69
New member
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
Phostenix wiring diagrams is a good place. I agree more wild diagrams or better yet multi functions of parts is a great thing. How to turn a push pull into .......
Ill try to figure out how to make a decent legible diagram to present my steinberger hh 5 way 4 pole - mini toggle - stereo jack dual concentric pots v/t v/t
Phostenix wiring diagrams is a good place. I agree more wild diagrams or better yet multi functions of parts is a great thing. How to turn a push pull into .......
Ill try to figure out how to make a decent legible diagram to present my steinberger hh 5 way 4 pole - mini toggle - stereo jack dual concentric pots v/t v/t
Gaspasser69
New member
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
This is my original diagram, if it makes any sense to you newscentein.
The switch list is
Seymour duncan "black back" pu's
Neck. / bridge
1seriesout of phase/paralell out of phase
2series out of phase/ paralel in phase
3 coil cut / parallel in phase
4parallel in phase/ coil cut
5coil cut/ coil cut
They go to mini toggle 1 neck 2 neck bridge 3 bridge
Then dual concentrics and then sterio jack. The signals never connect until the y plug they are on separate poles. If you want to send neck only to one amp and bridge only to anonther amp or mixer.
This is my original diagram, if it makes any sense to you newscentein.
The switch list is
Seymour duncan "black back" pu's
Neck. / bridge
1seriesout of phase/paralell out of phase
2series out of phase/ paralel in phase
3 coil cut / parallel in phase
4parallel in phase/ coil cut
5coil cut/ coil cut
They go to mini toggle 1 neck 2 neck bridge 3 bridge
Then dual concentrics and then sterio jack. The signals never connect until the y plug they are on separate poles. If you want to send neck only to one amp and bridge only to anonther amp or mixer.
Gaspasser69
New member
Re: Gaps in the Wiring Diagrams?
Ibanez 7420 7 string slightly moded
The switch goes
Bridge/neck
1series in phase/series in phase
2parallel out of phase/series in phase
3coil tap/coil tap
4series in phase/coil tap
5parallel out of phase/parallel out of phase
Mini toggle n n+b b
Mini toggle hums hums+single single
Vol tone
V7 in neck
V8 in bridge i turned into a 4 conducter wiring.
Sd ssl1 for 7 string
I used seymour duncan color codes in the diagram. The real colors inside are different.
Ibanez 7420 7 string slightly moded
The switch goes
Bridge/neck
1series in phase/series in phase
2parallel out of phase/series in phase
3coil tap/coil tap
4series in phase/coil tap
5parallel out of phase/parallel out of phase
Mini toggle n n+b b
Mini toggle hums hums+single single
Vol tone
V7 in neck
V8 in bridge i turned into a 4 conducter wiring.
Sd ssl1 for 7 string
I used seymour duncan color codes in the diagram. The real colors inside are different.
