Gibson SG faded or Epiphone Les Paul

[blueman335]

Re: Gibson SG faded or Epiphone Les Paul

Yeah, I can, and I did. You seem to be implying that the working classes don't earn as much money as the well-heeled stereotypical classical music fan and therefore don't deserve to be entertained by professional musicians who use professional tools or care about the sounds that their instruments produce.

1) You can be a 'professional' musician & play on high end epuipment & still be a mediocre play; Keith Richrads, Neil Young, and John Foggarty come to mind. Do they really care how they sound, and if they did, why don't they take lessons? How well known you are, or how much you can spend on guitars has only a loose connection with genuine music talent. I just saw a 14 year old kid last weekend at the Sarasota Blues Festival, playing guitar & singing, leading his own band; he is a much better musician than the three above-mentioned 'professional' players.

You're assuming that spending more gives you a better sound. Almost everyone I've shared the stage with has had a more expensive guitar than I did. But I've gotten more compliments on my tones, and often more on my playing. Just because they spent more doesn't mean they sound better. A 'quality' gig to me, is 90% playing skill, and 10% equipment. I don't care more much they blew on their gear, if they're inspired players (even if full-time musicians), it' a mediocre gig. I've seen many bands with a stage full of high-end gear, that didn't sound so hot, or play very well. "Professional tools" only get you so far. You're confusing money with talent. Music's in your hands & in your head, not your wallet.

Tell me, do you want to watch a professional, but boring band with top notch gear, or a great local group that rips it up playing mid-priced equipment, and gets the crowd dancing & on their feet? I've seen plenty of examples of both. Energy, enthusiasism, and creativity...they don't sell that in music stores.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Gibson SG faded or Epiphone Les Paul

I've got to add, blueman, I do like sparring with you. You're always insightful and respectful as you're hurtling your rhetoric around the forum battlefields.

+1. Likewise, it should never get personal or viscious. Impassioned maybe, never angry. And bits of humor always help temper things. I am the wordsmith, aren't I? :beerchug:

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Gibson SG faded or Epiphone Les Paul

I just saw a 14 year old kid last weekend at the Sarasota Blues Festival, playing guitar & singing, leading his own band; he is a much better musician than the three above-mentioned 'professional' players.

Okay, what was he playing? I'm not sure how this is relevant otherwise, because without it, it doesn't support your division of the guitar world into too camps: great musicians playing mid-priced equipment, and poor musicians using expensive equipment. Your persistence on seeing it this way is puzzling. I'm merely saying that sometimes, more expensive things are better and are worth the money.

You seem to be saying that people who listen to music played on electric guitars are just low-brow drunks who wouldn't know or care anything about guitar tone, as long as the music is good, whereas classical music fans are going to be fussy about the exact timbre of the viola and the French horn, for example.

When I walk into a concert venue, the first thing I notice is the guitar tone. If it's awful, the concert is a lot less fun. If it's great, it enhances the experience immensely. The opening band for Yngwie had two guitarists. One had a Marshall, and the other one had a Rectifier. I couldn't get over how great the two sounded together. If the Boogie guy had settled for a $500 solid-state Peavey, the magic wouldn't have been there, because it can't do what a Mesa does. I was drunk off my ass, and I could tell the difference. As soon as I walked in, I heard it, blurted out, "****, that Boogie sounds good!" It wasn't 'til I got closer that I could actually see the armor plating on the head.

You're assuming that spending more gives you a better sound.

You're assuming that it doesn't and can't.

You're confusing money with talent.

Not sure where you're getting this.

Do you want to watch a professional, but boring band with high-end gear, or a great local group that rips it up playing mid-priced equipment and gets the crowd dancing & on their feet? I've seen plenty of example of both.

Again, it's one or the other with you. You make it sound like there are no great players who use expensive equipment or bad players who use cheap stuff. Can't someone just be what they are as a player, and spend their own money to get something that will sound a little better? Or is that just impossible, because "tone is in the fingers"? If it is, then what's with all the pickup and magnet swapping?

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Gibson SG faded or Epiphone Les Paul

Again, with all the love in the world.

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Gibson SG faded or Epiphone Les Paul

Haven't read through this entire thread so I hope no one has mentioned this but Gibson Faded series are made in China. On the hardware and electronics are added and wired in USA, which I is enough for them to advertise it as MIA.

Evidence?

yes please

Have we seen any evidence on this yet? I'll be somewhat annoyed at Gibson if it's true, but I'm mainly just curious. I know similar things are going on in other industries.

 

[theboatcandream]

Re: Gibson SG faded or Epiphone Les Paul

Buy an EPI LP and mod it to heck. It will be better than a stock SG Faded.

But for that price, why not get a used gibson les paul studio though? Or something from another brand like a Godin LG-hum?

 

[DoronEsh]

Re: Gibson SG faded or Epiphone Les Paul

Gosh, this thread is becoming endless, and I have to contribute ...

Why bother with so many words when the answer's as simple as this:

GO TO A STORE AND TRY THEM OUT !

Whatever suits YOU should be YOUR guitar.

I just bought an SG faded. Tried a STD and a Special, and just liked the faded better. It is, for now, my to-go guitar. I have never played a guitar that seemed so ALIVE as this one. Chinese or not, it is vibrant and vibrating with soul. I have heard people moaning about how the neck seems flexible. I don't suffer from it, I actually enjoy it. When you bend, the guitar bends with you. When you bash it, it responds. There's a living creature living inside that thing. It's just great. I was afraid it would be like playing on a piece of furniture, as it has a bare finish. Can't hold another guitar now without feeling that I need that "my-fingers-on-the-wood" feeling back.

DoDo

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Gibson SG faded or Epiphone Les Paul

Gosh, this thread is becoming endless, and I have to contribute ...

Why bother with so many words when the answer's as simple as this:

GO TO A STORE AND TRY THEM OUT !

Whatever suits YOU should be YOUR guitar.

Yep. Time to stick a fork in this turkey; it's done.

I just bought an SG faded. Tried a STD and a Special, and just liked the faded better. It is, for now, my to-go guitar. I have never played a guitar that seemed so ALIVE as this one. Chinese or not, it is vibrant and vibrating with soul. I have heard people moaning about how the neck seems flexible. I don't suffer from it, I actually enjoy it. When you bend, the guitar bends with you. When you bash it, it responds. There's a living creature living inside that thing. It's just great. I was afraid it would be like playing on a piece of furniture, as it has a bare finish. Can't hold another guitar now without feeling that I need that "my-fingers-on-the-wood" feeling back.

DoDo

That's exactly how I feel about my Faded V vs. my Epi Custom. The Faded V is a terrific guitar, and I love it. The Epi...well...

 

[blueman335]

Re: Gibson SG faded or Epiphone Les Paul

Yes, great guitar tones are nice, but it's even nicer if the guitarist is a great player. Somehow there's still some big name players that have expensive gear & still manage to have mediocre tones (to me, a percentage of tinny Strat players fall into this category), and/or be mediocre players. Yes, you can sound great with great equipment, I agree 100%, but it's no guarantee. The fingers are much more important than the tool. When I listen to a band, I'll take talent over gear any day. True, talent plus expensive gear is best, but on a local level, I've seen guys try to spend their way to sounding good, and they just don't have the chops. They don't fool anyone. In fact they look stupid and catch some grief for not being better players. They over-spent & under-practiced, of maybe they just don't have the 'feel.'

I just saw a local blues band and the guitarist had a Gibson LP and Mesa amp. He was a so-so player and his solos were lame. I could have played circles around him with my Epi's, and had him leave the place in tears. Ain't just about the money, son.

There are some good pedals around these days, and reasonably-priced, that can make a solid state amp sound pretty good, especially in a live setting.

You were plowed at that concert? What was that you just said about "low brow drunks" listening to electric guitar music?

It's not me who's saying it's one or the other. You assume that if they're "professionals" they must have "professional tools" to sound good, but I don't think it's that black & white. Believe it or not, you can sound lame using the best stuff out there (Keith, can you hear me?). You can also sound lame with cheap gear. Give me great players to listen to, I'll let them pick the gear that fits their budgets. The quality of the final sound isn't judged by totalling receipts from music stores.

It's easier to justify a guitar & amp collection that runs into the tens of thousands of dollars if you're doing as your career, and are one of the lucky few that can make a comfortable living at it. That's not 99.9% of the guys playing gigs though. I know of a lot of them, and all they struggle financially. Some just can't afford the big name stuff. Nor should they feel ashamed about that. And some are ceratinly better players than some who have a lot of money in well-known bands. Life ain't fair. Judge a man for his playing, not his guitar.

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Gibson SG faded or Epiphone Les Paul

Well, blue, we're both really good at putting words in each other's mouths, but I think we're basically saying this:

You: A great player can sound great with gear that is not top-of-the line.

Me: Sometimes you can get a nicer instrument and better tone by spending more.

Does this sound right?

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Gibson SG faded or Epiphone Les Paul

What was that you just said about "low brow drunks" listening to electric guitar music?

Bombay Sapphire martinis, up, with an olive. Isn't that at least middle-brow?

 

[blueman335]

Re: Gibson SG faded or Epiphone Les Paul

Well, blue, we're both really good at putting words in each other's mouths, but I think we're basically saying this:

You: A great player can sound great with gear that is not top-of-the line.

Me: Sometimes you can get a nicer instrument and better tone by spending more.

Does this sound right?

+1. Finally, agreement. At a blues bar, I jammed with a guy that had a Gibson 335, I had my Epi Sheraton. He never had it set up, & the PU's were about an inch under the strings. He mentioned it surprisingly sounded weak and thin and didn't know why. He was a good player, but my tones blew him away. Maybe if he got it set up right, he'd of had the better sound, but there's lots of variables, and the human element is the biggest. People can screw up anything.

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Gibson SG faded or Epiphone Les Paul

Maybe we can have a thread about how important setup is. I mean, small differences in pickup height or neck relief (for example) will knock your socks off when it comes to tone.