Guitar body tone woods info please.

[treyhaislip]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

It sounds VERY nasally. I'll give you that. JB in alder sounds very thick and smooth. Then again, the alder Jackson I use sounds awesome when I put my ear to it, and my Ibanez sounded bad, thin and bland. Hell, it was HEAVY for a basswood guitar, too. As heavy as my teacher's Tokai Love Rock.

But yeah, GOOD basswood sound neutral, but complex. There's definition in the notes. It handles distortion well, and it's light. It will also show you the true nature of your pickups, and amps.
Bad pieces of basswood are dead-sounding.

Best basswood guitar I've ever played was my teacher's NNG. Basswood back, flamed maple top, mahogany neck and ebony fingerboard. Set up with low action, 10-46 in Eb. Wilkinson trem. HSS: Fullshred, stock SC, and DiMarzio Cruiser. Sounded neutral but VERY complex and sweet.

Nasally is a good way to describe it. In Alder, the JB seems to just soar–excellent lead pickup IMO. But in Basswood it didn't have that "soaring" quality...was a disappointment to me. But, I've used it in several guitars, don't currently use it after I started using a Dimebucker, but would still list the JB as one of my favorite pickups.

I agree on good wood period as some pieces would have been better used as furniture. lol

Whoa, that is quite a combination there. I love Mahogany necks and absolutely love Ebony boards (have a Warmoth 7/8 Warhead project in the works right now with a Mahogany+Black Ebony board.) Wilkinson tremolos are awesome too, I bet that guitar rocked!

 

[MacBradley]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

If you're only worried about the sound coming out of the amp, I wouldn't stress about the wood type. There's a bigger difference in the amplified sound from slight setup differences and bridge hardware type than wood type. Its next to impossible to isolate just how much the wood is effecting the sound compared to other variables, but if you have two guitar bodies of different woods with as close of a setup and pickup height as possible, its next to impossible to tell which one is which without hearing the guitar's acoustic sound as well.

 

[jtougas]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

GREAT info - thank you very much for your hard earned experience.

So . . . if i read every one's assessment of the acoustic properties of Basswood, is a safe when i make the following conclusion ?

Basswood (unlike Mahogany) will not 'colour' your pickup's tone, and will thus allow the pickup to sound more like it's self ?


Or am i wrong in thinking in this direction ?

No, there's a definite character to basswood - there's a definite midrange hump (to me, especially pronounced in basses). Like any other wood, how pronounced it is depends on the hunk of wood, but I've never *not* heard it in basswood.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

If you're only worried about the sound coming out of the amp, I wouldn't stress about the wood type. There's a bigger difference in the amplified sound from slight setup differences and bridge hardware type than wood type. Its next to impossible to isolate just how much the wood is effecting the sound compared to other variables, but if you have two guitar bodies of different woods with as close of a setup and pickup height as possible, its next to impossible to tell which one is which without hearing the guitar's acoustic sound as well.

I will have to respectfully disagree. I have used the same setup with the exact same guitars with different wood combos and tried the same pickups in both, there was definitely a pronounced difference. Take an Alder strat and a Basswood Strat, take one JB and try it in both guitars and tell me there is not a difference. Simple test with simple variables (try to use the same string gauges and get strats with the same hardware.) Some people will list tons of reasons for the difference, getting extremely technical and all. I say, just do the simple test. For me, I could hear a difference.

No, there's a definite character to basswood - there's a definite midrange hump (to me, especially pronounced in basses). Like any other wood, how pronounced it is depends on the hunk of wood, but I've never *not* heard it in basswood.

Hmm, I guess to me in comparative to Mahogany it did not have any character–its the most neutral sounding wood I've used in multiple guitars. Granted, I have not dabbled in tonewoods for the Bass world, but in my guitar ventures I have used Alder, Ash, Basswood, Mahogany, Poplar, and Walnut. Out of these, I would put Basswood in the middle as a neutral wood. Perhaps the "midrange hump" you describe is my way of saying Basswood is neither bright nor dark. Because to my ears, neutral is the best word I know of to describe Basswood.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

No, there's a definite character to basswood - there's a definite midrange hump (to me, especially pronounced in basses). Like any other wood, how pronounced it is depends on the hunk of wood, but I've never *not* heard it in basswood.

. . . changed my question - see post no. 27

 

[Archer250]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

Nasally is a good way to describe it. In Alder, the JB seems to just soar–excellent lead pickup IMO. But in Basswood it didn't have that "soaring" quality...was a disappointment to me. But, I've used it in several guitars, don't currently use it after I started using a Dimebucker, but would still list the JB as one of my favorite pickups.

I agree on good wood period as some pieces would have been better used as furniture. lol

Whoa, that is quite a combination there. I love Mahogany necks and absolutely love Ebony boards (have a Warmoth 7/8 Warhead project in the works right now with a Mahogany+Black Ebony board.) Wilkinson tremolos are awesome too, I bet that guitar rocked!

The JB I had in my Ibanez DID have a "soaring" quality, but it was SO bad for rhythms.

And it does! It's the polar opposite of my alder Jackson. Mine is thick, big and authoritative, and his was dynamic and complex; mine sounded 80s and his sounded modern.

And yeah, I wouldn't say it has a midrange hump as much as it has a limited range that it sounds like it's mid focused. To me, it feels like its high and lows are subdued, so only the mids seem present.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

No, there's a definite character to basswood - there's a definite midrange hump (to me, especially pronounced in basses). Like any other wood, how pronounced it is depends on the hunk of wood, but I've never *not* heard it in basswood.

I will have to respectfully disagree. I have used the same setup with the exact same guitars with different wood combos and tried the same pickups in both, there was definitely a pronounced difference. Take an Alder strat and a Basswood Strat, take one JB and try it in both guitars and tell me there is not a difference. Simple test with simple variables (try to use the same string gauges and get strats with the same hardware.) Some people will list tons of reasons for the difference, getting extremely technical and all. I say, just do the simple test. For me, I could hear a difference.

Hmm, I guess to me in comparative to Mahogany it did not have any character–its the most neutral sounding wood I've used in multiple guitars. Granted, I have not dabbled in tonewoods for the Bass world, but in my guitar ventures I have used Alder, Ash, Basswood, Mahogany, and Walnut. Out of these, I would put Basswood in the middle as a neutral wood. Perhaps the "midrange hump" you describe is my way of saying Basswood is neither bright nor dark. Because to my ears, neutral is the best word I know of to describe Basswood.

With that in mind, i wonder how a Lace Alumitone will sound in a good piece of Basswood ?

Most said that these pu's are super neutral (with ZERO colouring on their part), and you really hear the acoustic properties of the guitar extremely accurately.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

With that in mind, i wonder how a Lace Alumitone will sound in a good piece of Basswood ?

Most said that these pu's are super neutral (with ZERO colouring on their part), and you really hear the acoustic properties of the guitar extremely accurately.

I've been very intrigued by Lace Alumitones but the price is probably what keeps me away from them, especially since their used market is not something I can judge on whether or not I would be able to sell them in the event I did not like them. And I think that would make for a very intriguing guitar project.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

Not to start a tone wood holy war here . . . . but I bet that you could cherry pick a piece of mahogany that sounds bright, a piece of swamp ash that sounds dark, and a piece of basswood that is heavily coloured. My experience has been that the actual cut of wood matters at least as much towards the particular tone of a guitar as the species of wood. At best you're talking about averages when you talk about the sound of a species of wood . . . which isn't all that useful with a single guitar. You don't have an average . . . you have a particular piece of wood.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

If you're only worried about the sound coming out of the amp, I wouldn't stress about the wood type. There's a bigger difference in the amplified sound from slight setup differences and bridge hardware type than wood type. Its next to impossible to isolate just how much the wood is effecting the sound compared to other variables, but if you have two guitar bodies of different woods with as close of a setup and pickup height as possible, its next to impossible to tell which one is which without hearing the guitar's acoustic sound as well.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. I respect your opinion but I do not share it.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

The JB I had in my Ibanez DID have a "soaring" quality, but it was SO bad for rhythms.

And it does! It's the polar opposite of my alder Jackson. Mine is thick, big and authoritative, and his was dynamic and complex; mine sounded 80s and his sounded modern.

And yeah, I wouldn't say it has a midrange hump as much as it has a limited range that it sounds like it's mid focused. To me, it feels like its high and lows are subdued, so only the mids seem present.

Interesting...I would have said "searing" quality instead of "soaring" lol I felt like it was bad overall, I was running it through a Mesa Boogie DC5 that sounded amazing with the Hotrails in Basswood, very bluesy sounding and handled high gain so well!

+1 for the 80's sound. lol And I'm intrigued now...Mahogany+Ebony neck on Basswood+Maple...the wheels are turning. lol

Limited range is another good way, IMO, to describe it. That's why I like this quote: "Basswood is a wood that’s being used predominantly on ‘metal’ guitars. This is because the tree grows rather fast, the grain doesn’t look particularly interesting or pretty (and therefor not considered to be a shame if finished in an opaque color; the extreme softness of the wood makes a hard finish a necessity, too) it doesn’t have the growl of mahogany, it doesn’t have the tightness or bite of maple, it doesn’t have the sweetness of alder or the chunky quality of ash. Instead, it has all of that, although to a lesser degree. It has some bite, some growl, some sweetness, but not much. That makes it a perfect template for your own sound. It doesn’t add anything to your tone but it doesn’t take away anything."

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

Not to start a tone wood holy war here . . . . but I bet that you could cherry pick a piece of mahogany that sounds bright, a piece of swamp ash that sounds dark, and a piece of basswood that is heavily coloured. My experience has been that the actual cut of wood matters at least as much towards the particular tone of a guitar as the species of wood. At best you're talking about averages when you talk about the sound of a species of wood . . . which isn't all that useful with a single guitar.

You don't have an average . . . you have a particular piece of wood.

Very true.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

Not to start a tone wood holy war here . . . . but I bet that you could cherry pick a piece of mahogany that sounds bright, a piece of swamp ash that sounds dark, and a piece of basswood that is heavily coloured. My experience has been that the actual cut of wood matters at least as much towards the particular tone of a guitar as the species of wood. At best you're talking about averages when you talk about the sound of a species of wood . . . which isn't all that useful with a single guitar. You don't have an average . . . you have a particular piece of wood.

Agree 100%
Now this, people, is the most practical thing. You'll never know until you get the cut.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

Not to start a tone wood holy war here . . . . but I bet that you could cherry pick a piece of mahogany that sounds bright, a piece of swamp ash that sounds dark, and a piece of basswood that is heavily coloured. My experience has been that the actual cut of wood matters at least as much towards the particular tone of a guitar as the species of wood. At best you're talking about averages when you talk about the sound of a species of wood . . . which isn't all that useful with a single guitar. You don't have an average . . . you have a particular piece of wood.

Ha! Tone wood holy war...it is inevitable when talking about tone woods. lol

I hear ya, generalizations will always be proven wrong. Toyotas generally are thought of as great quality cars. To the people I've known who have owned them and had issues they would disagree...and I would too if I had their experiences. I personally had a terrible experience with Jeeps, my (former) brand new 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee was in the shop 11 times in 9 months for various issues with the most serious being the thing decided a stop light would be the best place to dump all of its transmission fluid.

So I definitely understand someone could get a piece of Mahogany that sounds bright and a piece of Alder that sounds dark. I try to use words such as in my opinon (IMO) and from my experience to show what my experiences have been. I've worked with multiple Basswood strats, particularly because I love the Charvels from the 80's and they used a lot of Basswood in those strats. I am not trying to come across as every single Basswood strat will sound one way...just that from my experience Basswood is a neutral sounding wood compared to all of the other woods I've used.

 

[MacBradley]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

I will have to respectfully disagree. I have used the same setup with the exact same guitars with different wood combos and tried the same pickups in both, there was definitely a pronounced difference. Take an Alder strat and a Basswood Strat, take one JB and try it in both guitars and tell me there is not a difference. Simple test with simple variables (try to use the same string gauges and get strats with the same hardware.) Some people will list tons of reasons for the difference, getting extremely technical and all. I say, just do the simple test. For me, I could hear a difference.

I've done that exact test. I wish I still had two guitars of the same hardware with different wood types still, but I had to borrow a guitar to do it. I thought I heard a difference clear as day...until I had my friend A-B them for me several times without telling which was which. I was subconsciously influencing myself to hear a difference. I've done the same thing before with mixing and mastering as well, where I thought there was a slight difference when really I wasn't changing a setting. The mind has a huge influence over things we perceive compared to what they really are! Keep in mind, this is through a mic'd amp with the amp loud enough to not hear the guitar's acoustic sound on the recordings.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. I respect your opinion but I do not share it.

I'm aware I'm not in the majority with this opinion. I wish more people would blind test themselves like I have though. The trick is you can't know yourself which one you're listening to. I used to be a firm believer in the large tone wood theories and have bought guitars based on it as well, but once I isolated samples through the amp I found a greater difference between moving the action/pickup height 1mm than I did from wood to wood.

I do believe the wood still makes a difference, just less and less as the amp's sound is elevated above the guitar's acoustic sound. Theoretically it would only have no influence when plugging direct in.

 

[Nostalgic Distortion]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

View attachment 63616
Who said that basswood doesn't make for nice natural finishes? My MIK Strat has a basswood body, rock maple neck, and a rosewood fretboard? I think it looks like a million bucks & this picture is trash compared to how it looks when you see it in person!!!

See the trick is to cover it up with a nice KOA veneer!!! Lol, I actually really like basswood body's, to me they're quite neutral sounding. I guess that could be good or bad depending on what you're trying to do with it? All the Mahogany guitars I own are drak sounding, maybe you can get a piece cut & have it sound bright but in my experience every Mahogany bodied guitar I've ever played has had a darker quality to it....

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

I've done that exact test. I wish I still had two guitars of the same hardware with different wood types still, but I had to borrow a guitar to do it. I thought I heard a difference clear as day...until I had my friend A-B them for me several times without telling which was which. I was subconsciously influencing myself to hear a difference. I've done the same thing before with mixing and mastering as well, where I thought there was a slight difference when really I wasn't changing a setting. The mind has a huge influence over things we perceive compared to what they really are! Keep in mind, this is through a mic'd amp with the amp loud enough to not hear the guitar's acoustic sound on the recordings.



I'm aware I'm not in the majority with this opinion. I wish more people would blind test themselves like I have though. The trick is you can't know yourself which one you're listening to. I used to be a firm believer in the large tone wood theories and have bought guitars based on it as well, but once I isolated samples through the amp I found a greater difference between moving the action/pickup height 1mm than I did from wood to wood.

I do believe the wood still makes a difference, just less and less as the amp's sound is elevated above the guitar's acoustic sound. Theoretically it would only have no influence when plugging direct in.

Well, recently one of our own forum bros did a test for us all and posted the clip. I will not drag his good name into this conversation but it was a true A/B blind test. I was one of the ones who actually guessed it correctly. I do hear a difference and yes, my ears proved me right. If that forum bro wishes to enter this conversation then maybe he will post a link to the thread.

At the end of the day, some people hear it and some people don't. It's really that simple. No need to get all contrarian about it or start tone wood wars. Like I said, I respect your opinion but in my opinion you are incorrect.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

I think what wood does most of all is not give a guitar a tone you could necessarily pick out in a lineup, but it tends to 'count pickups out' from sounding good, or perhaps in the opposite case allow pickups to shine. One of the biggest problems with something like the JB for example is that nasally hump which is mentioned here. Not an issue in ash or alder, but get it into something like mahogany or Basswood as has been seen with certain Les Pauls and the above basswood examples and it can spell disaster.


The biggest issue might just be that out own experiences are unique with regard to wood. Not only do we listen each with different ears, but the individual wood planks are like snowflakes too. It is quite valid for many differing opinions to be equally valid based solely on the individual samples of wood people have tried.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

I've done that exact test. I wish I still had two guitars of the same hardware with different wood types still, but I had to borrow a guitar to do it. I thought I heard a difference clear as day...until I had my friend A-B them for me several times without telling which was which. I was subconsciously influencing myself to hear a difference. I've done the same thing before with mixing and mastering as well, where I thought there was a slight difference when really I wasn't changing a setting. The mind has a huge influence over things we perceive compared to what they really are! Keep in mind, this is through a mic'd amp with the amp loud enough to not hear the guitar's acoustic sound on the recordings.

I'm aware I'm not in the majority with this opinion. I wish more people would blind test themselves like I have though. The trick is you can't know yourself which one you're listening to. I used to be a firm believer in the large tone wood theories and have bought guitars based on it as well, but once I isolated samples through the amp I found a greater difference between moving the action/pickup height 1mm than I did from wood to wood.

I do believe the wood still makes a difference, just less and less as the amp's sound is elevated above the guitar's acoustic sound. Theoretically it would only have no influence when plugging direct in.

Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion and the fact that we are having the discussion just shows there are those who hear a difference and those who don't. I've used amps and effects processors recorded and can hear a distinct difference. I've done blindfold tests and am able to hear the difference. If you can't then hey, that's you. There are people who have something called "Synesthesia" and can see/taste sounds. I can't but just because I can't doesn't mean they are making it up. Our senses are not all equal, and that is not a good/bad thing (in the sense that mine is better than yours.) We are talking about experiences, since I can hear a difference in Basswood from Walnut, I choose to experience those and will give input when the question is asked just like you give input from your experience.

View attachment 63616
Who said that basswood doesn't make for nice natural finishes? My MIK Strat has a basswood body, rock maple neck, and a rosewood fretboard? I think it looks like a million bucks & this picture is trash compared to how it looks when you see it in person!!!

See the trick is to cover it up with a nice KOA veneer!!! Lol, I actually really like basswood body's, to me they're quite neutral sounding. I guess that could be good or bad depending on what you're trying to do with it? All the Mahogany guitars I own are drak sounding, maybe you can get a piece cut & have it sound bright but in my experience every Mahogany bodied guitar I've ever played has had a darker quality to it....

Ha! I thought there was a veneer I have a 1 piece that has some nicer grain for Basswood, but I went with a white nitro paint job so most of the wood grain is covered. Its some of the softest wood I've worked with, can't imagine trying an oil finish on it.

Well, recently one of our own forum bros did a test for us all and posted the clip. I will not drag his good name into this conversation but it was a true A/B blind test. I was one of the ones who actually guessed it correctly. I do hear a difference and yes, my ears proved me right. If that forum bro wishes to enter this conversation then maybe he will post a link to the thread.

At the end of the day, some people hear it and some people don't. It's really that simple. No need to get all contrarian about it or start tone wood wars. Like I said, I respect your opinion but in my opinion you are incorrect.

Don't need tone wars, although that sounds like it could be an epic YouTube video/song. lol Yeah, there are some who don't hear a difference and some who do...just a personal thing and everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.

 

[MacBradley]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

Well, recently one of our own forum bros did a test for us all and posted the clip. I will not drag his good name into this conversation but it was a true A/B blind test. I was one of the ones who actually guessed it correctly. I do hear a difference and yes, my ears proved me right. If that forum bro wishes to enter this conversation then maybe he will post a link to the thread.

At the end of the day, some people hear it and some people don't. It's really that simple. No need to get all contrarian about it or start tone wood wars. Like I said, I respect your opinion but in my opinion you are incorrect.

I would love to see that thread, unless its the one I remember from a bit back where the guitars are different scale lengths. That has a significant impact on tone due to the different string tension and is a variable too large to make a conclusion on the wood's effect on the tone. I'd love to see different results than I got with the same scale length though. I'm never afraid to admit I was wrong if it means I'll learn something new.