St_Genesius
New member
How often do you use the middle HB?
Just curious.
Just curious.
Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
- Thread starter St_Genesius
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V
Varg
Guest
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
Never. I have a Jackson with a JB and two Hot Rails - waste of time that middle pickup. Put a single coil in there - HSH guitars are aawesome.
I also have a 3 humbucker LP, used it for rehearsal on Sunday and never once used the middle pickup.
If I only had that one guitar I would wire it with a P90 in the middle and some kind of 5 way switching (like a strat).
Never. I have a Jackson with a JB and two Hot Rails - waste of time that middle pickup. Put a single coil in there - HSH guitars are aawesome.
I also have a 3 humbucker LP, used it for rehearsal on Sunday and never once used the middle pickup.
If I only had that one guitar I would wire it with a P90 in the middle and some kind of 5 way switching (like a strat).
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
All the time, and not a waste of time once you find the right pup and set up. The neck invader in the middle spot sounds great series, parallel, or split. And it sounds great clean, especially when blended with either the alt 8 in the neck. For higher gain, the middle invader does not sound so great on it's own, but it blends great with the invader bridge, by adding high end and an overall thinner, more cutting sound.
Between the three pups, switching options, and separate tone pots for each pup, I can get a lot of tonal variety.
Gratuitous shot of my setup. This is the old setup and still has the invader neck in the neck spot and full shred in the middle.
View attachment 27187
All the time, and not a waste of time once you find the right pup and set up. The neck invader in the middle spot sounds great series, parallel, or split. And it sounds great clean, especially when blended with either the alt 8 in the neck. For higher gain, the middle invader does not sound so great on it's own, but it blends great with the invader bridge, by adding high end and an overall thinner, more cutting sound.
Between the three pups, switching options, and separate tone pots for each pup, I can get a lot of tonal variety.
Gratuitous shot of my setup. This is the old setup and still has the invader neck in the neck spot and full shred in the middle.
View attachment 27187
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
+1. There was a thread here about this last year. Few, if any members used their middle HB's, and of the handul of big names that have HHH guitars, the middle PU was basically there for looks (or a smoke bomb in Ace Frehley's case). 6 coils lined up like sardines doesn't do much for tone quality; they all don't hit the string nodes right, and there may be issues from the overlaping magnetic fields. Too much crammed into a small space.
If middle HB's had decent tones, there'd be a lot more than just Gibson and Epiphone making them (which they do for tradition's sake). Almost every electric guitar manufacturer makes HSS and HSH guitars; they've copied what works. Gibson should have figured this out decades ago, and switched over to HSS and HSH with P-90's. But then they still make Vari-tone switches, another dud from the 1950's. Some things look better on paper than in actual practice, and no company hits a home run every time. There is a definite cosmetic appeal to Black Beauties and SG Customs; on mine, I've used a Phat Cat with twin A4's, which has a better, beefier tone than an HB, which sounds neutered in that middle slot. Triple P-90's are a viable option too.
+1. There was a thread here about this last year. Few, if any members used their middle HB's, and of the handul of big names that have HHH guitars, the middle PU was basically there for looks (or a smoke bomb in Ace Frehley's case). 6 coils lined up like sardines doesn't do much for tone quality; they all don't hit the string nodes right, and there may be issues from the overlaping magnetic fields. Too much crammed into a small space.
If middle HB's had decent tones, there'd be a lot more than just Gibson and Epiphone making them (which they do for tradition's sake). Almost every electric guitar manufacturer makes HSS and HSH guitars; they've copied what works. Gibson should have figured this out decades ago, and switched over to HSS and HSH with P-90's. But then they still make Vari-tone switches, another dud from the 1950's. Some things look better on paper than in actual practice, and no company hits a home run every time. There is a definite cosmetic appeal to Black Beauties and SG Customs; on mine, I've used a Phat Cat with twin A4's, which has a better, beefier tone than an HB, which sounds neutered in that middle slot. Triple P-90's are a viable option too.
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
My modified PRS EGII has three humbuckers, MV, MT, no coil splitting. The guitar's construction lends it a surprisingly Stratty tone. The central pickup - a PRS Artist Treble - is there for a combination of looks and completeing the "in-between" sounds in selector switch positions two and four. By itself, my centre pickup tends to be used for slide. This thread has started me thinking. With a Superswitch, I could make switch position three neck and bridge, in parallel, in phase.
My modified PRS EGII has three humbuckers, MV, MT, no coil splitting. The guitar's construction lends it a surprisingly Stratty tone. The central pickup - a PRS Artist Treble - is there for a combination of looks and completeing the "in-between" sounds in selector switch positions two and four. By itself, my centre pickup tends to be used for slide. This thread has started me thinking. With a Superswitch, I could make switch position three neck and bridge, in parallel, in phase.
Hurricane
New member
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
======================================
Clue me in , Invader PUs ?
Who makes them where can I hear them online .
I have contemplated one more on my Godin LGXSA , but it's got to be justified , ie, tonal - or like a banchee/sustainiac , it's has to have functionality like what you mentioned .
I can dig the cosmetic look too but that would not be the reason to chunk out a section from my guitar's beautiful quilted maple carved top look :eek2: .
Thanks :
Hurricane Ramon
======================================
Clue me in , Invader PUs ?
Who makes them where can I hear them online .
I have contemplated one more on my Godin LGXSA , but it's got to be justified , ie, tonal - or like a banchee/sustainiac , it's has to have functionality like what you mentioned .
I can dig the cosmetic look too but that would not be the reason to chunk out a section from my guitar's beautiful quilted maple carved top look :eek2: .
Thanks :
Hurricane Ramon
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
Here we go again. I don't believe anyone on anything until I try it/do it myself and see for myself, even if I learn the hard way. If I end up wrong, I will admit defeat and moive on, with no regrets.
But I got it to work for me, so it can work fine. And maybe what sounds good to me doesn't sound good to someone else, but not my problem....because I'm happy with it. Would I be able to rely on it as my sole pup of the three? No, absolutely not; bridge will always win out for me. But that doesn't make it an unuseful tool.
And what difference does it make if it's single or hum in the middle, if the middle position is no man's land? You can't make the no man's land argument at the same time you make the HSH argument. One coil of the hum sits in the same spot as the single, and the other hum coil doesn't. Is that enough to create nodal issues, etc? C'mon.
I have a hum in the middle, so it's thicker sounding than a single in the middle and it still has a slight quack to it, just much less, big deal. Notes sustain fine and sound balanced. I'll take it over a single in the middle any day.
Just because major companies don't make it and the average Joe doesn't buy what few exist or mod it themselves doesn't make it wrong. And almost every small/custom guitar maker has them their product line; no clue why they do it, but they do.
PS: I had a hot rails in the middle as well, and it also sounded like pooh to me, but that's more because I don't like that pup (neck was not good to me either). For whatever reason the neck invader sounds much better there instead, and the full shred bridge model did too.
Here we go again. I don't believe anyone on anything until I try it/do it myself and see for myself, even if I learn the hard way. If I end up wrong, I will admit defeat and moive on, with no regrets.
But I got it to work for me, so it can work fine. And maybe what sounds good to me doesn't sound good to someone else, but not my problem....because I'm happy with it. Would I be able to rely on it as my sole pup of the three? No, absolutely not; bridge will always win out for me. But that doesn't make it an unuseful tool.
And what difference does it make if it's single or hum in the middle, if the middle position is no man's land? You can't make the no man's land argument at the same time you make the HSH argument. One coil of the hum sits in the same spot as the single, and the other hum coil doesn't. Is that enough to create nodal issues, etc? C'mon.
I have a hum in the middle, so it's thicker sounding than a single in the middle and it still has a slight quack to it, just much less, big deal. Notes sustain fine and sound balanced. I'll take it over a single in the middle any day.
Just because major companies don't make it and the average Joe doesn't buy what few exist or mod it themselves doesn't make it wrong. And almost every small/custom guitar maker has them their product line; no clue why they do it, but they do.
PS: I had a hot rails in the middle as well, and it also sounded like pooh to me, but that's more because I don't like that pup (neck was not good to me either). For whatever reason the neck invader sounds much better there instead, and the full shred bridge model did too.
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
I went the invader route for the heavier music I play, but I have found they sound fine clean; sure, not quite as warm as alinco, but acceptable to me. TYhe alt 8 in the neck gives me warmth and thickness when needed. Yes, I have played other pups, both SD and dimarzio, ceramic and alinco.
Also, I was willing to try the middle humbucker experiment because it's easy to mod a plastic pick guard. Your carved top is another matter, and, imo, I wouldn't mess with it as part of an experiment if you're worried about the results or resale or lost. Given that I mod everything object I own, such as cars, house, etc, (except my wife, who wants to mod herself...lol), I'd probably do it.
I went the invader route for the heavier music I play, but I have found they sound fine clean; sure, not quite as warm as alinco, but acceptable to me. TYhe alt 8 in the neck gives me warmth and thickness when needed. Yes, I have played other pups, both SD and dimarzio, ceramic and alinco.
Also, I was willing to try the middle humbucker experiment because it's easy to mod a plastic pick guard. Your carved top is another matter, and, imo, I wouldn't mess with it as part of an experiment if you're worried about the results or resale or lost. Given that I mod everything object I own, such as cars, house, etc, (except my wife, who wants to mod herself...lol), I'd probably do it.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
It does make a difference where a PU sits; HB's and single coils have different magnetic fields, so they're 'reading' different things. HB's tend not to read the string vibrations as well in the middle slot, and the tones are nothing like they would be if the same PU was in the neck or bridge, and that comes as a surprise to most people. Plus a middle single coil pairs better with another PU soundwise; with an HSS, the 2nd notch gives you a virtual HB.
And you're right, it doesn't mean it's 'wrong' if major companies and the 'average Joe' don't make or buy HHH's; it just means that middle HB don't sound praticulary good to the average player, hence almost no market for it. It guys liked it, they'd buy it, and a lot more companies would fill the demand. They build what they think will sell. The demand is almost nill. Most guys with HHH's like they way they look, first and foremost. I think an alpine white SG Custom with a maestro is one of the most beautiful guitars there is, but it doesn't mean I like the tone of it's middle HB, which is why I have a P-90 in mine.
Very few players own an HHH guitar, even fewer actually use the middle HB. If you like yours, more power to you. But it's not for everyone. If it hasn't caught on with the vast majority of players in the past 55 years, it's probably not going to. Enjoy yours.
It does make a difference where a PU sits; HB's and single coils have different magnetic fields, so they're 'reading' different things. HB's tend not to read the string vibrations as well in the middle slot, and the tones are nothing like they would be if the same PU was in the neck or bridge, and that comes as a surprise to most people. Plus a middle single coil pairs better with another PU soundwise; with an HSS, the 2nd notch gives you a virtual HB.
And you're right, it doesn't mean it's 'wrong' if major companies and the 'average Joe' don't make or buy HHH's; it just means that middle HB don't sound praticulary good to the average player, hence almost no market for it. It guys liked it, they'd buy it, and a lot more companies would fill the demand. They build what they think will sell. The demand is almost nill. Most guys with HHH's like they way they look, first and foremost. I think an alpine white SG Custom with a maestro is one of the most beautiful guitars there is, but it doesn't mean I like the tone of it's middle HB, which is why I have a P-90 in mine.
Very few players own an HHH guitar, even fewer actually use the middle HB. If you like yours, more power to you. But it's not for everyone. If it hasn't caught on with the vast majority of players in the past 55 years, it's probably not going to. Enjoy yours.
V
Varg
Guest
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
To clarify, I rarely even use the middle position on a HH guitar. I basically use the bridge pickup for everything, unless I want a change for a solo then I use the neck.
I used to like wiring coil splits and things like that until I realised it was a total waste of time for me. I don't think a coil split is much use in a live situation playing hard rock or metal, and if I want to use a single coil for recording I will just use a guitar with a single coil in it!
The middle pickup in an HHH guitar is like that - the middle tone is pointless, I can get better tones either from bridge or neck alone or from another guitar.
To clarify, I rarely even use the middle position on a HH guitar. I basically use the bridge pickup for everything, unless I want a change for a solo then I use the neck.
I used to like wiring coil splits and things like that until I realised it was a total waste of time for me. I don't think a coil split is much use in a live situation playing hard rock or metal, and if I want to use a single coil for recording I will just use a guitar with a single coil in it!
The middle pickup in an HHH guitar is like that - the middle tone is pointless, I can get better tones either from bridge or neck alone or from another guitar.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
Which is apparently how most players feel. You should take two guitars to a gig anyways, and there's your tonal variety. At home you have even more options (more guitars and amps) so there's little need for what a middle HB offers. If I want more PU options in a guitar, I think I'm much better off with a typical HH layout with the Jimmy Page system in it. Plus, if you wire your guitar with independent volume controls, you can blend the bridge and neck into many combinations (in the middle toggle position). There's reasons why HHH's never caught on, and it's not just because a few guys like us said we don't see the point. Obviously the vast majority of players haven't seen any point in it either.
Which is apparently how most players feel. You should take two guitars to a gig anyways, and there's your tonal variety. At home you have even more options (more guitars and amps) so there's little need for what a middle HB offers. If I want more PU options in a guitar, I think I'm much better off with a typical HH layout with the Jimmy Page system in it. Plus, if you wire your guitar with independent volume controls, you can blend the bridge and neck into many combinations (in the middle toggle position). There's reasons why HHH's never caught on, and it's not just because a few guys like us said we don't see the point. Obviously the vast majority of players haven't seen any point in it either.
Simon_F
Super Moderator
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
I still haven't got around to rewiring my Epi SG Custom.
I was planning to replace the neck tone control with a neck/middle blend pot.
But another option I'm seriously considering is disconnecting the middle pickup, lowering it flush to the mounting ring and doing standard Gibson HH wiring.
I still haven't got around to rewiring my Epi SG Custom.
I was planning to replace the neck tone control with a neck/middle blend pot.
But another option I'm seriously considering is disconnecting the middle pickup, lowering it flush to the mounting ring and doing standard Gibson HH wiring.
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
I remember a few years ago there was a guy on here who put a Phat Cat in the middle position of his 3 PU LP or SG ... I forget which. He said it was far more useful than a humbucker.
That's what I would do if I had such an instrument. P-Rails might be a good option too.
I remember a few years ago there was a guy on here who put a Phat Cat in the middle position of his 3 PU LP or SG ... I forget which. He said it was far more useful than a humbucker.
That's what I would do if I had such an instrument. P-Rails might be a good option too.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
Had a 3-pickup reissue black beauty for a while. Sold it and got a two-pickup '83 black custom because it played so much better. The reissue had the standard modern Gibson frets. The '83 has low and wide frets.
The reissue did sound great, though. I mostly used the middle and bridge together.
Had a 3-pickup reissue black beauty for a while. Sold it and got a two-pickup '83 black custom because it played so much better. The reissue had the standard modern Gibson frets. The '83 has low and wide frets.
The reissue did sound great, though. I mostly used the middle and bridge together.
TheLivingDead
Dawn Of The Shred
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
Technically in the middle in both of my superstrats is a humbucker. A DiMarzio Area '67 and a DiMarzio Virtual Vintage Heavy Blues II. I use them both quite frequently.
Technically in the middle in both of my superstrats is a humbucker. A DiMarzio Area '67 and a DiMarzio Virtual Vintage Heavy Blues II. I use them both quite frequently.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
I used to have a string thru Jackson Stealth that was HHH configuration. I had this grand idea of millions of tones and wired each pickup with a series/parallel/split switch. What a rats nest of wiring it was in the cavity. Had a Super distortion in the bridge a PAF pro in the middle and a 59 in the neck. Then after a couple of years playing it and only using either the bridge or neck pickup with once in a while using the series parallel option figured out that it was all pretty much wasted.
Used to get a lot of ooooohs and ahhhhs from other guitar players though when messing with it. But in reality the other tones other than being novel for about 5 minutes really werent good for anything.
I used to have a string thru Jackson Stealth that was HHH configuration. I had this grand idea of millions of tones and wired each pickup with a series/parallel/split switch. What a rats nest of wiring it was in the cavity. Had a Super distortion in the bridge a PAF pro in the middle and a 59 in the neck. Then after a couple of years playing it and only using either the bridge or neck pickup with once in a while using the series parallel option figured out that it was all pretty much wasted.
Used to get a lot of ooooohs and ahhhhs from other guitar players though when messing with it. But in reality the other tones other than being novel for about 5 minutes really werent good for anything.
V
Varg
Guest
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
I had planned on either of those - first one I knew I would never use so didnt bother.
Second one just feels wrong - like breaking the guitar purposely lol :nervous:
I had planned on either of those - first one I knew I would never use so didnt bother.
Second one just feels wrong - like breaking the guitar purposely lol :nervous:
Re: Guys with 3-Humbucker Guitars
The A-series of the Teye guitars are all triple buckers, and some known players use those guitars.
My biggest gripe is that its so difficult to have a useful wiring with 3 pickups, on a les paul, if you don't want to mod it like crazy. IMHO a 3 pickup les paul is ONLY useful with a 5 way superswitch (so the middle position is always neck+bridge, not only middle) with assignable volume pots, like Teye guitars. That 3 way toggle with the 4 pots is just useless with 3 pickups, and Really, I've tried it all.
The A-series of the Teye guitars are all triple buckers, and some known players use those guitars.
My biggest gripe is that its so difficult to have a useful wiring with 3 pickups, on a les paul, if you don't want to mod it like crazy. IMHO a 3 pickup les paul is ONLY useful with a 5 way superswitch (so the middle position is always neck+bridge, not only middle) with assignable volume pots, like Teye guitars. That 3 way toggle with the 4 pots is just useless with 3 pickups, and Really, I've tried it all.
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