Having problems with 59 set

[gary mitchell]

I just Bought a Prestige Guitar from Canada, its a Les Pual type guitar. It is a Heritage Standard LP, with AAA flame maple cap Mahogany neck and body. It's a nice guitar, it was loaded with a SD 59 neck and JB bridge. I didn't care for the JB in the bridge, I wanted more of a old school sound, so I put a 59 in the bridge. I had it done by a Tech and it was done correct, I use 500k CTS pots and cannot get a good sound. the neck by itself is okay. My favorite sound is both pickups clean good reverb. Think Les Paul Mary Ford, Chet Atkins. I know Les use P90s alot. The bridge by itself will put chills down your back, the highs like ice. Together the pickups sound hollow and lifeless. I am layed off from work and don't have alot of money to throw around. If I can't find a cure for the 59's, I am going with maybe the Dimarzio 36th Annivesarys. What am I doing wrong please.:sad:

 

[formula73]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

The hollow tone from both on is kind of what makes that position what it is. Are you sure you're not describing out of phase? That's a definite possibility.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

Like any PAF, '59's are bright in the bridge slot. That's normal, especially for one with an A5 magnet, which are bright and scooped.

I prefer a warm bridge so I either use a wamer magnet or two 250K's (volume & tone), or both. The warmer magnets I use most are UOA5, A8, and A4. They take off some high end and add mids. We get our mags from Addiction FX on eBay.

'59's are great ariculate PU's, they should be fine with a minor, inexpensive tweak.

 

[gary mitchell]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

Thats what I was thinking it was out of phase, but according to the tech at Guitar Center it is okay. He said mjght be because my guitar as a little thicker maple cap then most guitars, are Les Pauls.

 

[gary mitchell]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

How can you tell if its wired wrong, that would make it be out of phase.

 

[formula73]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

It depends on the pickup wiring. If they're both 2 conductor and the shield (outer) goes to the pot casing and the hot (inner) goes to the prong on the pot, they're probably wired properly. 4 conductor, black is hot, green and bare go to ground (pot casing), and white and red are soldered together and taped off. I'd take it to somebody else and have it gone over. GC techs aren't usually the best and, in my experience, aren't the type to admit they f'd up. It's possible that they're magnetically out of phase but it seems unlikely since they're both Duncans and likely have the same magnet orientation. I'd leave that up to somebody more qualified to do that kind of stuff unless you want to takle it yourself. There are tutorials on here that can guide you through it that you can find if you search. However, since you took it to a GC to get the pickup swapped, I'd advise against it. Blueman sometimes forgets that not everybody gets elbows deep in tech stuff and just plays what they have, let alone may not be comfortable possibly eating the cost of a new pickup by trying to swap magnets around.

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

Thats what I was thinking it was out of phase, but according to the tech at Guitar Center it is okay. He said mjght be because my guitar as a little thicker maple cap then most guitars, are Les Pauls.

GC? Find another tech.....

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

Screw down all the bridge pickup's adjustable poles to be flat or nearly flat with the pickup. depress the strings at the last fret and measure the distance between the top of the bridge pickup screw pole piece and the bottom of the 6th string. If it's more than 1/16", adjust the whole pickup til the clearance is 1/16". do the same with the treble side.

play a chord and then switch to the neck pickup. adjust the pickup height on that one til the volume doesn't change when you hit a chord and switch between neck and bridge.

This will ensure that 1) your bridge pickup is going to be as warm and fat as it can be out-of-the-box and that 2) your pickup positions will be more balanced sounding,

now EQ your amp for the neck pickup. When you hit the bridge pickup now, it will still be a little shrill (this is normal) but that's why we have tone controls.

IMO this "EQ for the neck pickup and roll the bridge tone back" idea is the best piece of Les Paul tone advice I've ever been given. Ever.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

Pickups do not exist in a vacuum. They are mounted in electric guitars and the signal sent through an amplifier.

What amplification are you using? How do you set the controls?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

First of all, I'm a little confused. You said, "My favorite sound is both pickups clean good reverb". Then you said, "Together the pickups sound hollow and lifeless".

"Hollow and lifeless" is your favorite sound?!

The first thing you need to do is put an A8 in the bridge '59. That will get rid of the shrill and give it more warmth and body.

Then do as FuseG4 said and EQ your amp accordingly.

 

[gary mitchell]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

I have a 60s model Les Paul, I thought I would get closer to sound like it. As soon as I get home I will try what G4 said to do. I have each pickup about 8th inch from the string.

 

[gary mitchell]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

You know I didn't mind the sound of the JB and the 59 together, but I did not like the JB buy it's self it was to hot for me. Maybe that will help what I am trying to say. I am very sorry, I am having a hard time trying to put words with what , I am trying to hear. Are what I am wanting from my guitar. When I turn the JB down it lost it's luster.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

if you have a correct set of 59s (i.e. a 59b and a 59n) then they are wired rwrp so that when both are selected then they will be out of phase. This will cancel any hum (even tho being humbuckers its minimal) but it will also brighten your sound a little (but only very marginally) .... kinda the same way position 2 and 4 do on a strat 5 way. It still should sound super cool in the middle position. I have had 2 sets of 59s in 2 different axes and the in between position is anything but lifeless.
Did you mention that the bridge is too trebly, or did you like it that way? it was kinda hard to tell from your post. There are other things you can do to fine tune your pickups, but i think there is definitley something wrong with your set up as it is now...
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_2t_3w
Have a look inside...thats how a pair of 59s should be wired. I think its worth checking that you actually have a 59bridge paired with your 59 neck also...you can check by using a multimeter and checking the dc resistance of each pickup.
The 59 neck should have about 7.4 and the bridge model should have about 8.1ks.
If not then perhaps that is your problem.
But im guessing that somewhere along the way the tech has wired something incorrecly or perhaps has made a cold solder join.
If you have a soldering iron and a multimeter, it is worth fixing it yourself, and the knowledge you gain will save you money down the track. A simple mutimeter and soldering iron will cost you less than one hour of a tech's labour too - and you will know that the job has been done the way you want it.
Once the "in between" issue is sorted, then we can talk about tweaking your pickups/tone pots etc to taste by using different magnets or tone pots etc.

 

[firebirdV]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

if you have a correct set of 59s (i.e. a 59b and a 59n) then they are wired rwrp so that when both are selected then they will be out of phase.

?

Are you sure about this? I think the '59 set is simply supposed to be a normal PAF clone without any funny business.

Definitely do not just jump in and start modding things. You do not need an A8 and probably don't even need a new pickup.

I would make sure that the pickups are wired correctly first; Guitar Center techs aren't necessarily competent. If everything is wired correctly, adjust the pickup height and amplifier settings until you find the sweet spot. It can take a while to figure out how a set of pickups works with your rig, so going slowly and patiently is usually works out the best.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

if you have a correct set of 59s (i.e. a 59b and a 59n) then they are wired rwrp so that when both are selected then they will be out of phase. This will cancel any hum (even tho being humbuckers its minimal) but it will also brighten your sound a little (but only very marginally) .... kinda the same way position 2 and 4 do on a strat 5 way. It still should sound super cool in the middle position. I have had 2 sets of 59s in 2 different axes and the in between position is anything but lifeless.
Did you mention that the bridge is too trebly, or did you like it that way? it was kinda hard to tell from your post. There are other things you can do to fine tune your pickups, but i think there is definitley something wrong with your set up as it is now...
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_2t_3w
Have a look inside...thats how a pair of 59s should be wired. I think its worth checking that you actually have a 59bridge paired with your 59 neck also...you can check by using a multimeter and checking the dc resistance of each pickup.
The 59 neck should have about 7.4 and the bridge model should have about 8.1ks.
If not then perhaps that is your problem.
But im guessing that somewhere along the way the tech has wired something incorrecly or perhaps has made a cold solder join.
If you have a soldering iron and a multimeter, it is worth fixing it yourself, and the knowledge you gain will save you money down the track. A simple mutimeter and soldering iron will cost you less than one hour of a tech's labour too - and you will know that the job has been done the way you want it.
Once the "in between" issue is sorted, then we can talk about tweaking your pickups/tone pots etc to taste by using different magnets or tone pots etc.

yeah I'd have to respectfully disagree with the idea that stock 59s as a set have an out of phase middle position.

take a stock 59 set and listen to the middle position. Now open one or the other up and flip the magnet. THAT is out of phase. You'll hear it... it's really weak, nasally, hollow, and bright.

I hate that sound and now I double check my mags when I pickup swap.

 

[formula73]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

What they said. They're just plain ol buckers.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

yeah I'd have to respectfully disagree with the idea that stock 59s as a set have an out of phase middle position.

take a stock 59 set and listen to the middle position. Now open one or the other up and flip the magnet. THAT is out of phase. You'll hear it... it's really weak, nasally, hollow, and bright.

I hate that sound and now I double check my mags when I pickup swap.

I don't like the sound either, but reversing the hot and earth of the pickup will solve the problem too

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

Yep fuse...sorry i made a mistake about phase....however...a correct set of 59s will have the neck and bridge pickups RWRP to each other, so the in between position is hum cancelling (not out of phase as you pointed out). Anyway...the in between position should sound really good for the OP. So i reckon there is something amiss that the tech has not noticed.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

Yep fuse...sorry i made a mistake about phase....however...a correct set of 59s will have the neck and bridge pickups RWRP to each other, so the in between position is hum cancelling (not out of phase as you pointed out). Anyway...the in between position should sound really good for the OP. So i reckon there is something amiss that the tech has not noticed.

This is just NOT TRUE.

BOTH p'ups are humbuckers, so they have two bobbins wired in series, whick "bucks the hum", LOL.

So, all HBs are connected in the same way, the south bobbin (screw) start is soldered to GROUND, the north bobbin start is connected to HOT, the south end is connected to the north end; the magnet's south pole must be installed towards the screws and that's it! A HB p'up is born.

When you get both p'ups on, they're connected in PARALLEL, and that's what creates the chirpy and/or quacky sound (B.B. King comes to mind).

This is a good source to understand how a humbucker p'up in made.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electro...s/Humbucker_Kit.html?tab=Instructions#details


HTH,

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Having problems with 59 set

yeah i follow kojak, but both pickups do have some hum when used individually...and that hum disappears when both pups are selected...is that just the nature of paralllell to stop hum? or is the hum cancelling between the two humbuckers caused by something else?
I thought it was the fact that two pickups (or coils) when run in parallell and are both rwrp to each other you get hum cancelling. Cant you run two pups in parallel and still get some hum if they are same polarity and same winding? So why do two humbuckers make less hum when on together if they are both the same polarity and wind?