Help rquested again for my AR300

[markmann]

First off thanks for the great suggestions you gave for last time around for helping me select a set of pup's for my Artist. The A2P/PG set I picked got me in the ballpark but I think I need something different for the bridge.

In my last threadI explained that I am looking for pup's that have great clarity and nice tight distortion when using the lead channel on my tube amp.

I installed the new SD set in the Artist yesterday and have been doing a lot of crittical listening and comparing. What I've determined is that I really like the A2P - neck. I has a nice strong tone and voicing sounds great. The Pearly balances well with the A2P volume-wise but doesn't have the tone I'm looking for and this is where I need help. Compared to the A2P or the 57's I have in two other guitars, the PG has a less focused low end and actually sounds a little buzzy in comparison. Also, I don't find it to be bright at all and it doesn't have any high-end sparkle or chiminess to it. Doesn't really bite either when dug into. In my artist it sounds like the PG's mid's are voiced in the lower mid range.

Is there an SD bridge pup that will compliment the A2P that will give me better string-to-string clarity, more upper-mid or high end clean sparkle and tighter distortion compared to the PG?

Should I be thinking about a complete new set?

Thanks,

Mark

 

[tone4days]

Re: Help rquested again for my AR300

hi mark - yeah, i remember your thread ... i remember you said you were looking for lower gain in the bridge to let the amp do the 'heavy lifting' ... did you tweak with pole-piece height and overall pickup height? ... if that approach didnt yield the tone you had hoped for, maybe try a JB or Distortion .. i bet they'll get just what you are looking for ... no sense giving up on the AIIP if you like it - wont be hard to match to it ...

are you within the 21 day return period?

cheers
t4d

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Help rquested again for my AR300

No sparkle from a PG?

That, my friend, doesn't sound right.

Try tweaking the height and polepieces.

 

[markmann]

Re: Help rquested again for my AR300

hi mark - yeah, i remember your thread ... i remember you said you were looking for lower gain in the bridge to let the amp do the 'heavy lifting' ... did you tweak with pole-piece height and overall pickup height? ... if that approach didnt yield the tone you had hoped for, maybe try a JB or Distortion .. i bet they'll get just what you are looking for ... no sense giving up on the AIIP if you like it - wont be hard to match to it ...

are you within the 21 day return period?

cheers
t4d

T4D, I adjusted the entire pickup up and down but not the pole-pieces. I always thought that pole piece adjustment was for getting a particular pole-piece closer to a weak sounding string... am I not correct? If not can you enlighten me? Yes, the unwound B and E strings sound a bit weak and my thought was to adjust for those but I always thought that the real tone difference happens when the entire pup is either very close or backed off from the stings.

Also, I am within the 21 day period and have already talked to Keven at Blackrosecustoms... very cool guy. I should have no problems with a swap if I want to do that.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[markmann]

Re: Help rquested again for my AR300

No sparkle from a PG?

That, my friend, doesn't sound right.

Try tweaking the height and polepieces.

Benjy, I thought the same thing and I was very surprised at what I heard after all the threads I've read about how the PG is a brite pup. I'm all for experimenting with the PG some more if your willing to give some tips on how to do it. Like I said in the last post I've adjusted the entire pup up and down from almost touching (when strings are pressed down on the last fret) to about 3/16 away. I really think that my Artist is a dark sounding guitar compared to my LP, which is another thing that surprised me. I always thought that double cuts were supposed to be brighter than single cuts... generally speaking. That said the A2P is not bright either but it sounds excellent nonetheless... stronger tonally and more PAFish than the 57 to my ears, I will just always have my tone control at 10.

My 57's don't seem real fussy about adjustment (within reason). If they're too close they will sound a bit distorted and when backed off they clean up nicely but not a big difference tonally. That's how I've approached the SD's. If I'm wrong please advise.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[markmann]

Re: Help rquested again for my AR300

I did a little research and I found an excellent post by Zhangliqun on 7/5/05 that explains pole-piece adjusting very well and I've pasted it below.

Seems I have some adjusting to do before I give up on the PG.


"There really isn't a "too low" or "too high", except to say that if the pole pieces are buried below the surface of the bobbin, it's probably too low for any sort of 'normal' sound (though some might prefer that). And if the head of the pole piece is completely above the the surface of the bobbin to the point where you can easily see the threads of the pole, it's too high, though again, though some might actually prefer that too.

As for the effect of raising vs. lowering: Raising the polepieces will increase the overall output but will also give it a brighter sound -- lowering will do vice
versa.

It's all ultimately a matter of taste but somewhere between the two extremes described earlier is where you find your conventional/classic guitar tones. I adjust according to the basic tone of the guitar -- if it's warm and dark, I set the poles kind of high for a little more brightness, and lower them closer to the surface of the bobbin if the guitar needs a little more beef. I also adjust on a string-by-string basis -- some strings may sound a little weak compared to the others and need a little help from a higher pole piece."

"If you raise the whole pickup too close to the strings, you will get a very harsh tone. Raising the poles will only make it brighter -- because it emphasizes one coil over the other and makes it a bit more single-coilish."

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Help rquested again for my AR300

I'll take measurements tonight and get back to you ASAP.

 

[markmann]

Re: Help rquested again for my AR300

Well, I've had good opportunities to spend some noisy time with my new guitar and the new SD's over the past couple of days and besides a little tinnitis I've had great fun playing, adjusting and listening.

T4D and Benjy, you were absolutely correct in suggesting that my problem could be pup height and pole adjusting. I never knew how much difference both adjustments together could make on tone. Right out of the box the A2P sounded great and adjustments improved it only slightly. On the other hand the PG needed adjusting badly but once I lowered the pup height and raised the poles it really came alive. It went from too thick with not enough top end to over-the-top high-end quickly.

That said, I like the PG a lot better now but it still leaves me wanting. Adjusting takes it from dark and thick to sharp and brite but I never quite hit the happy median I'm looking for. There's a certain voice that I'm just not hearing.

I like the A2P so much that I'm wondering how an A2P bridge would sound?

Any other suggestions now that I'm at this point?

Thanks,

Mark

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Help rquested again for my AR300

I run a rather large cap on my bridge PG. I believe I'm running a .047mfd orange drop compared to the .022mfd unit used in the neck. I suggest adjusting it to the point where its a bit brigter than optimal and installing the larger cap and perhaps a 258K tone pot (thats how I do it).

 

[markmann]

Re: Help rquested again for my AR300

I run a rather large cap on my bridge PG. I believe I'm running a .047mfd orange drop compared to the .022mfd unit used in the neck. I suggest adjusting it to the point where its a bit brigter than optimal and installing the larger cap and perhaps a 258K tone pot (thats how I do it).

Interesting. I assume the pup sounds basically the same but with some treble rolled off?

I wonder if I could also get where I want by modifying the ploe-pieces? I read somewhere on this forum that shortening the pole pieces causes the tone to be thicker. If that's true would it make sense to think that more thickness could offset the brightness? Or maybe tone it down some?

I also read on the HC forum that Seymour said he thought that the PG might get some of it's brightness from the fact that the pole-pieces have chamfered ends? If that's actually true I wonder what the effect would be of flattening the ends?

 

[markmann]

Re: Help rquested again for my AR300

Bump