Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

[jerryjg]

Okay-heres the deal. Ive got a dear friend who is considering selling his '59 STD . Tiger striped Les paul to buy a Ranch in Texas.
He's not a collector, he's a player, so take that into considertion.He loves to play that guitar.
What i would like to know is what part of that guiatr value is due to the rarity(1000 ever made) and the mythical staus and waht part is due to the craftsmanship , playability, and tone?
Im assuming that the old world craftsmanship of these '59's are akin to the modern day equivalent of the Stradavarius Viloins, and that the tone therefore is equally as beautiful.
Then , I am also wondering waht value is placed relative to the rarity and mythological status of the guitar..?

A little help please? thanks

 

[Aceman]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

Why do you want it? At the end of the day - to me, a guitar is only as good as it plays. If it doesn't feel right, it isn't right. It's gotta pass the boobie test.

This guitar, however, has an insurmountable reputation to overcome. I suggest this - go to a GC or where ever. Have someone play the same riffage on that and three other LP's. See what your ears say.

Then - have them hand you a couple of LP's and see wht your hands say.

After that think about it. But I'll saay that the old LP is built much the same as any other. Physically pretty indistiguishable. Also - The electronics that made them (50's, CTS, bumblebees) are accessible to anyone for the cost of a chicken (forget down payment on a ranch). Finally - the real X factor is the pups - which were worse as qa goes than todays pups. could be a gem - could be junk. Could easily get some Seths or PG's.

And if you are a real friend - you'll tell him what a collector will pay....

 

[jerryjg]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

Why do you want it? At the end of the day - to me, a guitar is only as good as it plays. If it doesn't feel right, it isn't right. It's gotta pass the boobie test.

This guitar, however, has an insurmountable reputation to overcome. I suggest this - go to a GC or where ever. Have someone play the same riffage on that and three other LP's. See what your ears say.

Then - have them hand you a couple of LP's and see wht your hands say.

After that think about it. But I'll saay that the old LP is built much the same as any other. Physically pretty indistiguishable. Also - The electronics that made them (50's, CTS, bumblebees) are accessible to anyone for the cost of a chicken (forget down payment on a ranch). Finally - the real X factor is the pups - which were worse as qa goes than todays pups. could be a gem - could be junk. Could easily get some Seths or PG's.

And if you are a real friend - you'll tell him what a collector will pay....

Thats excellent feedback Sir, and I appreciate it.
I take it you do not see the instrument as a a "Stradavarios" equivalent in terms of craftsmanship/tone?
Thanks for the reply!

 

[ibanezrocks]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

I can't say as I've never played one, but I'd imagine anyone who plans on playing their guitars would cash in on selling one and get almost anything else to play with money left over for other things in life. If I was a millionaire I would want one, but otherwise I would be proud just to say I owned one, and enjoy what it got me.

 

[Kostas]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

If he really has a '59 Les Paul without modifications he can sell it for $500.000! There are many rock stars who wait with cash in their hands. All he has to do is find one of these specialists who know about vintage instruments.

No guitar for me worths such an amount of money. I would sell it at once and would never work again!

I have never played a '59 Les Paul but except for the aged woods there is nothing you can't get from a newer guitar. There are companies who build amazing instruments and I don't mean mass production companies like Gibson & Fender.

 

[Iron Horse]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

Well, I wouldn't say a Les Paul is equal to Stradivarius', rather an old PRS or Suhr or some else. Stradivarius made only the best, the real difference comes from quality over quantity and of course the woods, hardware, and craftmanship.
Go play all the Lester's (Gibson CS RI's and maybe standards and some better copies) and then play the '59 and then play them all again.

 

[darnright]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

I would love to have the opportunity to play one once, just to see.... With my playing ability, I wouldn't know the difference, but i'd still like to play one once. I agree with the other guys...NO guitar is worth that kind of money. I, too would sell it and live happy-ever-after with an R9 and a great Marshall....


-dave

 

[Wattage]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

It is a combination of things that can't be separated.

The best guitar I ever played was a conversion, '54 to '59, that used all real '59 parts. I is an amazing guitar, last time it sold it went about $30k, that has gone up I am sure.

A genuine article '59 has is worth serious change $250k plus depending on condition and providence and it is only going up. Myths and fairy tales aside they don't command the prices they do for no reason. Are they worth it to the average player? I doubt it but is a vintage Ferrari worth it to the average driver?

 

[Aceman]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

Hey - I love an LP as much as the next guy. Actually, I love a Les Paul way more than most guys! But some things are only worth so much.

It's just like the housing market - some of the houses I saw for sale were just not worth 400k. But people were selling - and buying them, for that much! Today, the same houses are going for 180k. Glad I didn't try to sell, or worse - buy one, for that much. If the history and the mojo is worth it to you - go ahead.

At 5k, Ace Fehley had better have played "Shock Me" in makeup on the thing! I'll go to 50k for Billy G's Pearly. So, it's really only worth what/how it plays to me, and no guitar plays that well. The older it gets the less likely it is to be that good.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

Tell him to sell, get the ranch, and buy an old Hamer.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

i've had 2 real 59 lp's in my hands... one a Doctor in town here owns and he brought it in for show and tell oneday to the local shop... he really plays it, not so much a collector piece...

The other was at a guitar show... some scary biker looking dude was carrying a beat up case and stopped by a booth to talk to the guy about the Mesa Boogie amps he had there... He opens the case and here was a real 59 but in extremely bad shape..... The finnish was pretty much gone and what was left looked like it had been in the desert sun... burnt looking almost... The neck binding was dried out and cracking... the dealer told him it was worth at least $100,000 in the shape it was in... they plugged in and started to play thru the Mesa Boogie amps and was really nice!!!!!

even if i was to win the lottery i'd have a hard time spending $300,000 and up on a 59 LP.... I'd rather buy a ton of Lp's from various years and some nice vintage strats and teles as well.... plus amps

 

[jeremy]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

ive played a 59 and it was a great guitar, not better than a ranch in texas. house vs guitar, house always has to win.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

ive played a 59 and it was a great guitar, not better than a ranch in texas. house vs guitar, house always has to win.

yup!

 

[dressed2kill]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

Should be no question he can sell it buy the ranch and probably have enough left over to go get himself a reissue or two and enjoy them just as much.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

there has been many rock stars that have sold there 59's to afford a house... or other toys... Townshend once sold a Jazz guitar he used on Music Must Change to buy a boat!

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

I've never owned a 50s Les Paul Model (Standard), but I've owned a bunch of 50s Juniors and a couple of 50s Specials.

They're special guitars.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

I have played a real '59 and i have owned a '55 LP Special and they are very well made....worth the price of a ranch??? :dunno:

I would tell your bud to get a hold of Southby's auction and let him get what it is worth.

 

[Curly]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

I'll try to make a short, objective observation:

collector markets are determined by a number of factors:

• supply and demand
• historical significance
• condition

please note that rationality is not on the list. That said, these guitars have proven to be excellent 'investments'.

It's so ironic that the '58-'60 LPs were dropped due to poor sales ... they were just too far ahead of their time for the music that was played then.
(And BTW, I think there were far fewer made than 1000.)

I'd also note that the reason that some current historical reissues are considered excellent guitars is that Gibson has gone over every single detail of original models, and has gotten a lot of feedback from players and collectors.

Bottom line: get an honest dealer to broker the deal, and don't take the first offer.

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

It's so ironic that the '58-'60 LPs were dropped due to poor sales ... they were just too far ahead of their time for the music that was played then.
(And BTW, I think there were far fewer made than 1000.)

There were under 1700 sunburst "standards" made from 1958-1960.

I think the reason the humbuckered LPs failed is because of the PAFs. I think they were around 5-8 years ahead of the time, when everybody wanted that "Fender" sound- a LP wasn't going to do that. The drop off in LP sales was right after the advent of the PAF. The Thinlines were OK because they had a different market.

 

[mediumpimpin]

Re: Holy Grail '59 STD. -what part myth/rarity vs. playing/tone?

IMO, a 59 lp is nowhere near the same ballpark as a stratovarius. The main reason being, those violins are about 300 yrs old and as such much rarer than any Gibson. That and the fact that nobody really knows exactly how the stratovarius was made and finished makes it impossible to duplicate. A Gibbo, OTH, is very easy to duplicate as the Japanese and others have been doing for 30+ yrs. I'm with the others that he should find a good broker and sell it off for top dollar, then invest in a nice LP and the ranch.