How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

You can be assured that the materials and labor are not all of the same quality as models that cost two or three times as much. There's still a healthy profit margin even at that price.
 
Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

Maybe they decided to take a margin hit as a business investment.
 
Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

Ok so are they crap or are they alright? I don't know much about the actual difference in cosmetics other then these see satin which I like...


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Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

They look fine but uh... That means nothing in terms of playability and quality.


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Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

A very big cost in the manufacture of a guitar is the finish. That finish is about as inexpensive as you can put on a guitar. But it still plays and sounds great. If you don't care that it doesn't shine like 1/4" thick glass, it's a good bargain for a Gibson. Some of the other components are also less quality than it's more expensive brothers, but add some better hardware and you have a great player for a pittance.

I've got a similar one in brown with P-90's and it's a very fun guitar to play. For $499 and free shipping you just about can't go wrong.
 
Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

They saved quite a bit on finish and inlays I'm sure. Many people here where talking about how much they liked the SGJ though, when it came out earlier this year. You could probably find those threads if the search function is working.
 
Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

Are they made worse? like how do they make these USA guitars so much cheaper? I would like to know since I want to buy one but I do not know if they are crap or good...

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SGJ14F2SC-14

Shoddy QC, second rate wood, cheap finish, very little if any final touch attention to "little things" (fret ends, well cut nut, etc)... Also, no gibson markup, since its meant as an entry level instrument to get you used to playing their stuff & spending your money with them in the future
 
Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

They look fine but uh... That means nothing in terms of playability and quality.


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have you played one?
They're crapped out of the same CNC machines that the others are and are sent down the same line that the low-medium Gibsons are, but since the finish is minimal, it's out the door faster. Less time in the booth = less money. That's why the Studios are cheaper too.
It's also probably 2nd grade mahogany. They get their woods in huge shipments and make what they can out of them, so there might have been enough of this lighter, unfigured board to make a run of relatively cheapo SGs. People gotta have the figuring in it, regardless of how good it sounds, I guess. I like it.

Go play one before you naysay it. It's a bad idea to doubt ANY guitar before you play it, just as it's a bad idea to love a guitar without playing it. Lost my interest in Tele basses when I finally got around to playing one, but gained an interest in those cheap Tobys from Epiphone.
 
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Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

Shoddy QC, second rate wood, cheap finish, very little if any final touch attention to "little things" (fret ends, well cut nut, etc)... Also, no gibson markup, since its meant as an entry level instrument to get you used to playing their stuff & spending your money with them in the future

Not this sh!t again.
 
Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

Maybe they decided to take a margin hit as a business investment.

All that does is draw sales away from the medium grades of SG's. Dude, we're talking about Gibson, that is not how they do things. They will make a good profit on everything they sell.
 
Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

A very big cost in the manufacture of a guitar is the finish. That finish is about as inexpensive as you can put on a guitar...I've got a similar one in brown with P-90's and it's a very fun guitar to play. For $499 and free shipping you just about can't go wrong.

Agree, for $499 you get a decent guitar, but the cost of the finish between a Std and a J is nowhere near $800. They're making up for it in other areas.
 
Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

I don't know anything about them for sure, but I can take a guess that the main reason is that they minimize the labor costs associated with their construction. That is easily the most expensive "ingredient" in a guitar made in a country with at least some semblance of labor laws.

First of all, the flat finish saves gobs of time in labor. You might not appreciate that fact until you have done your own glossy lacquer paint job, but it's really quite true. Finishing a guitar takes a lot of boring and time consuming labor. Gibson sometimes take as much as 50 percent off the retail prices of their guitars that simply have flat finishes instead of glossy ones. Aside from labor, their flat finishing procedure also eliminates the need for many materials and supplies, like grain filler, primer, sandpaper, mineral spirits, polish, and buffing pads. Long story short, doing a flat finish instead of glossy saves Gibson a whole lot of money. Put a gloss finish on that guitar, and it would cost at least $800, maybe $1,000.

Also, Gibson has put lower quality, rushed craftsmanship into their low-end guitars for over a decade now. Their quality of setup, fret work, and finish detail has declined steadily since – I would say based on experience – about Y2K. Now, their final assembly and setup quality is laughably bad. It's easily the worst it has ever been, and is easily worse than many imported guitars. And it has even bled into their higher-end models now. But it's most visible in the lower-end guitars, which are cranked out in high numbers by incredibly rushed workers trying to satisfy an insane and greedy boss. Bottom line, they guitars simply don't get a lot of caring and detailed individual attention, hence highly reduced labor costs. A low-end Gibson needs at least $100 in setup work, fret work, and a new nut. Probably closer to $150, actually.

The other thing is materials. Stock Gibson tuners are complete crap. The tailpieces and bridges are now made out of cheaper material than they were even a few years ago. New pickups? Be leery of new and improved anything; it's usually only new and improved for the company, not for the product itself, especially knowing Gibson's trends over the past 10 to 12 years. New models can often simply be a way of sneaking in cheaper materials and labor costs.

Gibson's wood has become lower in quality as well. Honduran mahogany is no longer the standard. They are using other, less expensive, types now. They've turned Les Pauls into chambered guitars in order to keep weight down with the heavy-ass wood they use...and disguised it as an "improvement" to the design of the guitar. They have gone through all sorts of weird fretboard changes over the past few years (including obech, synthetic, and laminated boards). To me, it seems that they are having trouble maintaining an affordable supply of quality wood, and they are trying all sorts of options to maximize profit. As opposed to continuing to build great guitars like they did in the '90's, and simply charging more for them to reflect increasing costs of doing business, they are cutting the costs of doing business, and letting the product suffer as a result. And if even the high-end Gibsons are being skimped on in terms of materials, what do you think the low-end models are getting for materials?

So, I ain't saying that these models are definitely horrible, or that they are definitely a rip off. I'm sure you could take one, put some money into it, and have a guitar that is pretty nice. But there definitely are reasons why they are so much cheaper than most Gibsons. It's best to approach the purchase of one of these guitars the same way you approach the purchase of an Epiphone. I.e., plan to have to put money into it before it is really a "good" instrument. Just like with many Epis that you take and then soup up, in the end, you're probably better off just buying a nice used Gibson instead.
 
Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

This is what they do to save in a nutshell and why the price is so low
1. Cheapest metal parts and materials they have. Bottom line bridge and tuners with standard frets. Like blueman said
2. Barely finish the guitar. No gloss or burst. No real neck finish or headstock detail, just minimum paint. Minimum features without the better looking inlays or binding etc. Save money on materials and save money on time spent. Itsabass, jon the art guy and GuitarDoc are right, look toward the Gibson BFGs that came out a while ago. Sick specs but the lack of finish keeps them cheap. Also while an unfinished neck may FEEL great, it also makes it more prone to warping, especially if the wood and hardware used isn't sturdy. Usually great for maple and quartersawn stuff but flatsawn mahogany can get messy. Plus gunk from your hands and arms sticks to an unfinished better because it finds ways to reside in the grain of the wood, and that makes it look and feel weird. Like you'll notice some parts of your guitar after playing it for a long time look really shiny and smooth while others look like dry wood.
3. Bottom line electronics. The pickups are genuine Gibson pickups but the cheapest ones to make, (the 490s which are still overpriced) and with either a cheap plastic black cover so they can mix the colors of whatever spare coils they have and have it not be visible or they just use open coils and don't produce the plastic. Pots and electronics are bottom line.
4. Scrap body wood. The body wood here is often made up of multiple smaller parts glued together that would've otherwise been discarded because they were too small to work with otherwise. so this is Gibson's way of marketing the trim wood. Credit to Adieu
5. More rushed and lower standard of quality control than higher end models because these things are designed to sell more and faster. Again credit to Itsabass and Adieu.

What butchers do with the fat and meat they trim off of beef is they grind it and make hamburger. This way they can still put a value on the meat and still sell it with no net loss, and it comes across as more variety with something more affordable that 's a good product. This is Gibson's way of going about it with their electric guitars. So blueman is right, it's a business move that comes out in their favor with less waste and more profit.

The J series is the hamburger of the Gibson line.

Other companies have done this too. Ibanez used to grind the wood into sawdust and make composite lightweight bodies that would have no grain and resonate well and make cheap models out of them. Fender did the same with the Mustang and Musicmaster series as they were made from spare wood and electronics, hence they were smaller with simpler electronics. These guitars were often marketed at "student models". The J series is no exception as the J stands for Junior. These guitars are picking up where the Gibson Junior series left off as budget guitars (the ones with one or two p90s and flat slab bodies without maple tops and minimal aesthetic features). But as history has shown us, the Mustangs and Ibanezes and Gibson Les Paul and SG Juniors have all been used to great effect. I wouldn't call the things "crap" cause I do love me a good hamburger, and I don't think anyone is TOO good not to have one. But it's not gonna be the filet mignon chateau you dig? So jon and Empty Pockets are right too. They're fine guitars.

That's the bottom line. You can find them with maybe 2 pieced bodies out there, I've seen them. And they stand up pretty good to most abuse. If it is set up right and you like the simpler look and the tone they put out then go for it. Find a 2 piece body that looks good throw a new set of pickups in there with locking tuners or whatever and you have yourself a machine. Granted at that point you would have spent probably $300 more for all that and labor if you didn't do it yourself, which would have led you to probably buy a more expensive model anyway. But it's ultimately your call. I think they are appropriately priced, but I'd still scrounge for a used one and fix it up a little. "If you think it sounds right than it is." EVH. And it's a simple enough design to work well, stay in tune, etc.
 
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Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

The "J" models are awesome! My buddy has an LPJ and an SGJ and they both play phenomenally!
Don't care much for the pups or the hardware colors though..
 
Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

Shoddy QC, second rate wood, cheap finish, very little if any final touch attention to "little things" (fret ends, well cut nut, etc)... Also, no gibson markup, since its meant as an entry level instrument to get you used to playing their stuff & spending your money with them in the future

How are you going to get people "used to playing their stuff and spending [their] money with them in the future" with a lousy guitar? Pretty insane buisiness model.

These are about half the price of a standard on sale or with a coupon. That 500 bucks is easily eaten up by doing a complicated nitro finish. Whether you believe in the merits of nitro or not, it is really time consuming and labour intesive to work with. Same with neck binding etc.

The ones I have played were all very good instruments. I may have just gotten lucky, but I think they are worth checking out.

V.
 
Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

Agree, for $499 you get a decent guitar, but the cost of the finish between a Std and a J is nowhere near $800. They're making up for it in other areas.

My thinking is they can probally sell the standard for the same money but never will. This is Gibson finally pricing a guitar for what it is actually worth.
 
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