How does a bobbin matter in sound?

[AlexR]

Re: How does a bobbin matter in sound?

Based on my experience starting out as a music fan who knew nothing of how music was made, to learning to play multiple instruments, and eventually training with a professional studio engineer from a major studio and learning how to listen for specific things, I would be willing to assert that all people already can hear these things, it's just so few have learned or been trained to recognize all the details in everything they are hearing.

True dat. I remember getting the transcription to Hotel California early in my playing days. It was only then that I realised two guys traded licks for the outtro solo......and with different guitars etc. Now the parts are bloody obvious, I hadn't been listening properly before.

 

[SJ318]

Re: How does a bobbin matter in sound?

Yeah,
And what can you do if your strap is in a bad mood?
Maybe bagpipes don't use PAF's.
SJ

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: How does a bobbin matter in sound?

I think my OP came up discussing the differences between the Antiquity humbucker and an APH-1. I have pretty good ears, but I can't hear the difference in most plastic bobbin materials outright. But I can hear the difference in a metal covered pickup with butyrate bobbins that hasn't been wax potted vs. one with polycarbonate that has: particularly in a high-gain situation.

I know we like to laugh at guys who claim they can hear the differences between certain battery types in their stomboxes or what direction their cable is plugged in; but there are guys out there with those kinds of ears. Someone I know very high-up in the Fender organization once told me that he could hear the difference between humbuckers wired with single conductor hookup cable and four-conductor; and he knew a guy who could hear the difference between a single-ply and a triple-ply pickguard.

During the development of the D-TAR digital acoustic guitar preamp Mama Bear, we were working with one of those guys. He was playing his rosewood Martin OM through an emulation of a guitar--and none of us knew what it was. The "Ears Guy" said, "I hear koa." And I watched as the engineer looked up the emulation on his clip board and sure enough, he was playing through an emulation of a koa guitar.

So while I can't hear the difference between bobbin materials or spacer materials, I believe there are folks out there who can. And even more importantly, for pretty much all of us who are reading this thread, you can hear the difference between similar pickups built with different materials, like the Antiquity and APH-1. So all of those things: bobbin material, spacer material, bottom plate material, wax potted, cover material, magnet type, wire type and gauge--all of these components are integral ingredients that determine a pickup's flavor or tone.

What 'cha guys think of this quote?

I don't know that I can hear the differences Evan is describing but I do think I can often feel or sense some kind of diff.

As often as not, something I like "feels" right or "feels" familiar.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: How does a bobbin matter in sound?

The various plastics used in probably 99% of humbucker bobbins -- including butyrate -- I can't hear any difference. They're all fairly stiff plastics and thus seem to transfer vibration pretty well and very similarly.

But when I started making P90's, I was using bobbins from the late Guitar Jones. These were comparatively soft and rubbery and they darkened the tone quite a bit compared to the above "classic stiff-plastic" (I'll call them CSP'S) bobbins that I changed to later. The softer texture probably absorbed more of the vibration with less transfer.

The forbon/bakelite used in the flatwork on Fender singles is stiffer than the GuitarJones P90 bobbins but softer than the CSP's. I make my humbucker-sized P90's with both forbon and pickguard plastic and the forbon is a little darker, so imagine how bright a vintage Strat bridge pickup would be with CSP flatwork!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: How does a bobbin matter in sound?

The various plastics used in probably 99% of humbucker bobbins -- including butyrate -- I can't hear any difference. They're all fairly stiff plastics and thus seem to transfer vibration pretty well and very similarly.

But when I started making P90's, I was using bobbins from the late Guitar Jones. These were comparatively soft and rubbery and they darkened the tone quite a bit compared to the above "classic stiff-plastic" (I'll call them CSP'S) bobbins that I changed to later. The softer texture probably absorbed more of the vibration with less transfer.

The forbon/bakelite used in the flatwork on Fender singles is stiffer than the GuitarJones P90 bobbins but softer than the CSP's. I make my humbucker-sized P90's with both forbon and pickguard plastic and the forbon is a little darker, so imagine how bright a vintage Strat bridge pickup would be with CSP flatwork!

That's really interesting.

I've never heard a Strat pickup with a plastic bobbin that I could live with.

But they're always been cheaper pickups.

Isn't the Tex-Mex pickup a plastic bobbin pickup? Thinking of the pickups in the Fender Jimmie Vaughan.

In any case, it's glassy bright and sharp. But there are other things going on with it besides a plastic bobbin.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: How does a bobbin matter in sound?

there are other things going on with it besides a plastic bobbin.

One VERY important thing: the dimension of the core. In the plastic bobbins is bigger and shaped differently.

And this variable alone makes all the difference, if you ask me.

HTH,

 

[darthphineas]

Re: How does a bobbin matter in sound?

One VERY important thing: the dimension of the core. In the plastic bobbins is bigger and shaped differently.

And this variable alone makes all the difference, if you ask me.

HTH,

^^^ this ^^^

 

[uOpt]

Re: How does a bobbin matter in sound?

I have great respect of the sound-changing properties of mechanical effects.

Any kind of movement allowed, or on the contrary, anything that dampens existing movement, can make an instant difference is how "pure/boring" a sound is. You need some looseness in the guitar in general and the pickup. Almost all highly regarded sounds need pickups that are somewhat loose, and epoxied in, super-stiff pickups are trash. The only exception to the rule is some active pickups like EMGs.

Subsequently the flexibility of the bobbin easily matters. The bobbin could also be flexible WRT its connection to the screw holes on the bottom and the rest of the coils.

 

[dystrust]

Re: How does a bobbin matter in sound?

I have great respect of the sound-changing properties of mechanical effects.

Any kind of movement allowed, or on the contrary, anything that dampens existing movement, can make an instant difference is how "pure/boring" a sound is. You need some looseness in the guitar in general and the pickup. Almost all highly regarded sounds need pickups that are somewhat loose, and epoxied in, super-stiff pickups are trash. The only exception to the rule is some active pickups like EMGs.

Subsequently the flexibility of the bobbin easily matters. The bobbin could also be flexible WRT its connection to the screw holes on the bottom and the rest of the coils.

Gibson Iommi 'buckers are potted in epoxy as well. As fat as that pickup is, I think it'd be unplayable mud if it were made any other way.