How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

[Rich_S]

Years ago, I played Marshalls. JMP 2203 halfstack, JMP 2203 combo, JCM800 2203 quarter stack, and finally a 4010, which was a JCM800 2204 chassis in a 1x12" combo. In my mind, the ultimate combination of Marshall tone and portability.

Many years after selling the 4010 and not playing, I built my current 18 Watter clone. It's a Marshall for sure, but it's not the same. The biggest difference is in the bottom end - 18 Watters get cluttered and fart, which bigger Marshalls have the power to stay tight.

Anyway, I'm thinking Marshall combos, and my question is, how well do the current models (DSL40C and DSL15C) imitate the old MV JPMs and JCM800s? The DSLs have channel switching with shared EQ, and each channel seems to have some option switches for different tones. Can I assume the DSLs can get a lot dirtier than unboosted JCMs did? Also, is either of the channels capable of doing the JCM tones? Remember, my "thing" is '80s new wave, punk, and jangle pop. My idea of Marshall crunch is The Police, Pretenders, Plimsouls, Cars, and the like, not the '80s metal that we usually associate with JCM800s.

So, catch me up on 30 years of Marshall "progress". What are the new amps like?

 

[Laughing Kookaburra]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

To be fair, the 18 watt clones are clones of the 18 watt 1974s (some are 20 watts, I think?), rather than low watt versions of the bigger plexis and such...although maybe you know that already!

From what I hear, many of the 18 watt clones do that old 1974 quite well, although I've not played an actual 1974, only my Trinity 18.

The last model I put any time on a bigger Marshall was a 900 series, which while unlike earlier Models is itself a long time ago.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

To be fair, the 18 watt clones are clones of the 18 watt 1974s (some are 20 watts, I think?), rather than low watt versions of the bigger plexis and such...although maybe you know that already!

I know that quite well. It's actually surprising how Marshally 18 Watters sound, despite being so completely different from "real" Marshalls inside their insides. That said, they do tend to get mushy and cluttered-sounding when you push up the gain. In modern parlance, they don't take pedals terribly well.

 

[JeffB]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

In essence, no, none of them do a very good job.

If you want the closest thing in modern Marshalls, the Vintage Modern was the best choice. Recently discontinued.

 

[DankStar]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

They should make the 4010, original VS line, the 900 mkiii, and the jtm60 (maybe with a different layout) again. Not sure why they think the DSL line is so worth all the reboots and reissues.

When I feel my jtm30 gets farty (usually a low volume concern), I turn the gain down and use a mxr classic OD on the ZW setting. Maybe that trick would work with yours?

My ideal Marshall tones are diamond head and lock up the wolves (album) though, which is different than your tastes.

 

[JeffB]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

PS. Might look into Avatars 18w. They have jacked up the circuit a bit to overcome some of the 1974s shortcomings. Killer vids on youtube from Dan Baird and Warner Hodges along with a few from Avatar themselvee.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

I have a JCM900 / SL-X and I was trying out Marshall combos to use for smaller cover-tune gigs. I found a Vox Valvestate sounded closer to my Marshall than any new Marshalls.

 

[Rich_S]

How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

Yeah, I'm kind of afraid the answer might be a good modeler though the effects return on my Bandit 65.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

I agree with JeffB. If you want a REAL definitive 70's - early 80's Marshall tone, you really should just buy a classic, and restore it to new spec. (caps/tubes/maybe pots)

It should also have EL-34's or 6550's, because it's the sound. EL-84's just don't have the head room and bottom end, or the same character in the highs.

The other option is a clone of a classic Marshall......using EL-34's, 6550's, KT-88 etc. Build it with a master volume so you can dial in the level of gain. I like big bottles, not for the volume, but because of the dynamic range. You can pick soft and it's glassy clean, but when you dig in with your right hand, the amp swells up into more gain. The JMP/JCM's are great at that dynamic medium gain territory.

My 84 4103 is a monster of an amp. It's not the most versatile and not the most gainy, but it's one of the best sounding rock amps I've ever plugged into. It has a roar that gives people goosebumps when they hear it. NOS Mullard ECC83's, Tungsol 6550, V30, Creamback 65. [edit - G12-H30 70th Ann./Creamback 65....better]

 

[Aceman]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

Which "old" Marshall exactly are you interested in? There are so many classic Marshall sounds, it's like PAF's. Lots of great ones. Pick your poison…

 

[DankStar]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

that is a beaut, GJ

 

[Rich_S]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

GJ, I love that combo of yours, but realistically only need half of it. Did you see the Neil Giraldo rig rundown in the last week or so? If not, here it is:



Spyder was another big influence on me back then. I like his talk about the JPM combos... I wish Jim Marshall would have sent me one of them. After I read that Giraldo was using 100-watt combos with EVM-12Ls, I had to build one: I bought a 50-watt MP combo, modified the cabinet to accept the chassis from my 2203 head, and replaced the Celestions with EVs. It still wasn't heavy enough, so I built a road case for it.

I saw Benetar live once, touring behind "Precious Time" IIRC, and Spyder was using six of those combos. :eyecrazy:

After that amp was stolen (along with the van and everything else) I replaced it with a JCM800 2203 head and 1960 cabinet, also with EVs. Overall heavier than the combo, it was still easier to handle in two pieces.

When I got tired of lugging that around, I downsized to the 4010. All three of those amps had 6550s in them for their tighter, cleaner sound. These days, I don't need the volume of a big-bottle Marshall, but as GJ says, it's the headroom and low end that's lacking from the 18 Watter. Big bottles are really the only way to get it.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

This guy just kills me! What is even greater is that he can throw that pupster on top of any number of 4x12's at his disposal at a moments notice, and have 7/8's of a fullkstack, with part of it open backed! They look pretty cool together too..I know beause my first amp in serious amp in '78 was a 2x12 Marshall combo( checkerboard).
He's got his bases covered practically better than anyone I've ever seen!

 

[Rich_S]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

The engineer inside compels me to point out it would be 3/4 of a full stack.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

One thing I will say, and this is the best tip I could give any Marshall owner, is that you just have at least a 1/2 stack, and a 50 watt head ( ppreferably 100 watts) , get a chair, and sit down right in front of it, maybe a littel to the side, then crank everything to ten, and play it. Then you'll get the magic. if you stand up, you won't get it. Thats what full stacks are for.
I love 100 watt full stacks. For me, thats what Marshall is. You don't have to turn the actual amp up quite so loud (even though it is still louder) comparatively as a 1/2 stack to get "the" Marshall sound.
I will say, that old early 70's 50 watt Superlead through a 1/2 stack straight cabinet slays, though.KIller tone throuhg vintage G12h-30's..and thats another whole exact part of the equation. You've got to use those G12-H'30's or G12-65's.
EDIT- Not basing this on the 2203MV/04MV/JCM 800 though necessaraly, mostly NMV Supelead and "Plexi".

 

[dystrust]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

I guess it depends on how picky you are. I can tolerate playing through newer Marshalls, but I can't say I have any interest in owning one.

Maybe track down another 4010 or a 2204 and load it with 6550s. You could also look for one of those JMP 2x12 MV combo amps (2104 maybe?). I've played a few loaded with either 25W black backs or later ones with G12-65s, and they all sounded great.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

GJ, I love that combo of yours, but realistically only need half of it. Did you see the Neil Giraldo rig rundown in the last week or so? If not, here it is:

Don't hate me. Here's my Guild/Dearmond Starfire. :fingersx:

 

[DankStar]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

something like this would probably do the trick!

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/msg/4404720862.html

 

[zzmoore]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

Assuming you are talking :
JTM, 1986, 1987, 1959.....They Don't, and have not for a Long Time.
Ceriatone and Marsh make Great Marshalls.
If you are into "boutique".....Metro, Fargen, Germino, and Top Hat are as good as it gets.

 

[gnuyu2]

Re: How well do new Marshalls do the old Marshall thing?

re-issue the 4001 !