Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

[LtKojak]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

the Fugly was by far the weakest member of the SDUGF pickups sales-wise BECAUSE of the blade-PA construction that you and I both so liked.

What *I* think is, the Fugly failed to please their very core crowd, the shredders, by being wound in the PAFish low 8Ks, where the crowd was expecting "crushing goat skulls" DCR figures, meaning at least anything north of 17K.

That's when suddenly the wallets didn't make it out of the pocket, if you ask me. YMMV.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

At this point we need to know what pickup we are actually voting for.

Is this a continuation of Darkmatters previous efforts? If so the idea was arguably done, some felt it was ready as is some didnt.

Is this the new "blank" slate as people have said and if so what is the blank slate by that I mean what exactly is its intended target.



If you ask me just finishing up the last push that was needed to finish what dark matter had started would be the best way to finish this.

The idea of the 59/C neck version is a sound idea, it has backing of more than a few and the idea is pretty much hammered out.

Some people wanted this description to be sent to the custom shop...(dont forget this was what was voted on and won by a large margin)

"The hybrid concept is based on getting a good hybrid pickup in the neck position to pair with the 59/Custom. It will be made as a original set, the voicing starts with the 59/Custom but will have more upper mid focus, more controlled bass, cleaner, clearer. It will still have the hybrid complexity. Whether it will be made with 2 different wire gauges, or just have mismatched coils is yet to be determined. "

Some wanted a 7th vote to determine if we should have it use an existing 59N coil and a new custom neck coil or if we wanted it to be a completely new venture.

For my suggestion I wouldnt bother with the 7th vote i would leave it up to MJ to decide. If she wants to use existing coils she can if she wants to use new she can. The tone target is whats important.

The way I see it this is the shortest and simplest way to get this done and not draw this out squabbling over minutia.

Well, that was actually a great post, Edgecrusher.

Thank you!

I gotta work now, but I'll see to put up the "Voicing Factor" vote up ASAP.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

What *I* think is, the Fugly failed to please their very core crowd, the shredders, by being wound in the PAFish low 8Ks, where the crowd was expecting "crushing goat skulls" DCR figures, meaning at least anything north of 17K.

That's when suddenly the wallets didn't make it out of the pocket, if you ask me. YMMV.

I think KeeperOS was on par with the aesthetics affecting the Fuglybucker's sales success far more than the DC resistance. Add to that the number of members who simply felt left behind in the whole design process, which is extremely important in a "forum designed" pickup, and it doesn't take a genius to see why it didn't attract more buyers.

To be honest, I see the same thing happening here, but we have an advantage, because it's still early enough to change the process...

Therefore, since I'm not the first person to suggest it this time, I'm going to also vote for a re-vote. As Edgecrusher said, we need to determine what pickup we are building before we decide what pole pieces it will have.

I initially recommended people just "roll with it", but that's clearly not going to happen, so I'm jumping sides and backing their request. It's far better to simply redo "Poll 1" than be forced to backtrack on a future poll...

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

What *I* think is, the Fugly failed to please their very core crowd, the shredders, by being wound in the PAFish low 8Ks, where the crowd was expecting "crushing goat skulls" DCR figures, meaning at least anything north of 17K.
That's when suddenly the wallets didn't make it out of the pocket, if you ask me. YMMV.

You're 100% right Pepe, I completely agree with you that the low ohmage and A2 magnets did alienate many which was a crime as the pickups are exactly the way we asked them; Medium-hotness.

And that brings me back to my previous point. The SD Custom shop knew that in order to follow both the design of a blade coil and a PA-coil (which meant two magnets instead of one and thus, a stronger magnetic field) and the intended output level meant lower DCR figures. To them it was as simple as 1-2-3.

However A LOT of forum members that didn't completely understood how certain parts of a pickup's design affect its' tone naturally assumed that the SD Custom shop had failed to produce what they had asked/wanted and ultimately voted with their wallet whereas had they trusted the SD Custom shop to know better than them, they would have been by now the extremely proud owners of at least one FuglyBucker set.
The pickups are exactly what we had asked.

That is why I am so adamant when I say that there's a fundamental difference between deciding as a group what kind of pickup we want and telling the SD Custom Shop how to go about building it.

50 or 100 of us don't know better than the SD Custom shop when it comes to designing the construction of a pickup. 2 or 3 of them might but that's still a drop in an ocean of (relative) ignorance.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

I just watched a clip of the Fuglys and I think that they sound fantastic.

 

[DreX]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

I'm very surprised by the number of people in this poll who have voted for a non traditional pole piece arrangement. Cumulatively, they outnumber the screw/slug traditionalists three to one. I wish the poll showed who the voters where.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

I'm very surprised by the number of people in this poll who have voted for a non traditional pole piece arrangement. Cumulatively, they outnumber the screw/slug traditionalists three to one. I wish the poll showed who the voters where.

It's mulitple choice people could cast more than one vote. That's why there are 59 votes and only 45 voters

 

[Demanic]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

I voted too quickly before I knew it was multiple choice. I voted for double screw, but I should have also voted for hex/slug.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

I would probably try the Fuglybucker if it wasn't so damn fugly. I like the way my guitars look now, and the fuglys would fug it up.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

^^
I just can't jibe with that sentiment. If something sounds good, then by definition, at least to me, it looks good.
I'd play a Fugly with parallel axis poles for the bass strings and Invader caps for the treble strings if it sounded good.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

For me, looks and sounds are two different things. It's all about a balance of trade offs really. It can't look amazing but sound like crap, but it also can't sound amazing and look like crap (would you seriously use a pickup if it sounded amazing, but had bobbins made out of fake dog crap?). It's like finding a partner - I really don't expect much from looks, but I'd have trouble getting into having a relationship with someone with the face of Jason Voorhees even if they had a great personality (but don't get me wrong, they still deserve all the respect you can give them). However, I would have no interest in someone with the looks of a goddess but the personality of used toilet paper. A nice, happy medium with reasonable expectations works great.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

IMHO as always, the happy medium. These are staying in this guitar:


(click on image for high-res photo)

 

[Ascension]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

I voted for the traditional set up in slug screw. I want a match for the 59/Custom Hybrid bridge in both tone and appearance to drop in a particular guitar. Build it and I will buy it is that clear enough:smack:?

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

KeeperOS, I think the larger point being made isn't that the Fuglybuckers were bad pickups from a functional standpoint, but that they were the result of a flawed process that left them rather unpopular with SDUGF members overall.

Me? I'm a big fan of the Fuglies! And I'm glad to see a few sets survived as "keepers" here. I was a proponent of the PA/Blade combination from the moment it became an option (go big or go home, right? ), but I saw what the haphazard design method did to alienate potential supporters. There's always a chance that, following an acceptable design flow, the Fuglybucker would still have come to be. And, if it were the result of a "proper" process, more people would have been on board when it was time to put their money on the table.

You can't please everyone, but why deliberately turn people off to the project when you don't have to? That's all I'm saying

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

IMHO as always, the happy medium. These are staying in this guitar:


(click on image for high-res photo)

See, in that guitar, it looks pretty good. In any of my guitars, it'd look Fugly with a capital "F".

 

[Demanic]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

For me, looks and sounds are two different things. It's all about a balance of trade offs really. It can't look amazing but sound like crap, but it also can't sound amazing and look like crap (would you seriously use a pickup if it sounded amazing, but had bobbins made out of fake dog crap?).

If it sounded truly amazing, I would use pickups made of compressed dog doodles. I would just make sure that they were sealed in polymer.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

WTF? We already decided that this pickup was going to be a '59/Custom hybrid for the neck. That's the design that won out over the Zebro. Now we're starting from scratch again?

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

@ masta' c, heh, saw what you did there . Yeah, we are in agreement. The Blade/PA design did alienate a lot of people, initially like Myaccount876 because of the looks and then, because said construction resulted in unfamiliar DCR specs that made many people perceive them as weak PAFish pickups (which are neither) so in the end, yeah, the construction cost them in acceptance from the very people that designed them.

I just wish that the same won't happen again.

GuitarStv, I believe Pepe's intention isn't to completely start over but hammer down certain specifics that we never got to talk about. After all the initial idea was his to begin with

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

Sorry, KeeperOS, I wasn't trying to dismiss your point entirely. You are correct that the Fugly's resistance specs confused a lot of people. It's hard to convince the average Joe that traditional notions about resistance largely don't apply in the case of the Fuglybucker. I was suggesting that a lot of people were turned off to it long before we knew resistance specs. That's all I was getting at

In regard to LtKojak's poll, what people are looking for is reassurance. Reassurance that we're voting on the specifics of a 59/Custom hybrid Neck pickup, not an entirely new set.

From what Pepe has posted, it seems he IS open to an entirely new design, while many members here strongly feel the decision to move forward with a neck companion to the 59/Custom hybrid was already decided upon before LtKojak took over the process.

Several members have inquired as to the context/goal of this design, but LtKojak's replies so far have essentially been "wait and see...". This uncertainty causes confusion, which results in the continued banter we're witnessing across different threads.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Hy-Bro 2015 p'up: Form Factor vote

Sorry, KeeperOS, I wasn't trying to dismiss your point entirely. You are correct that the Fugly's resistance specs confused a lot of people. It's hard to convince the average Joe that traditional notions about resistance largely don't apply in the case of the Fuglybucker. I was suggesting that a lot of people were turned off to it long before we knew resistance specs. That's all I was getting at

In regard to LtKojak's poll, what people are looking for is reassurance. Reassurance that we're voting on the specifics of a 59/Custom hybrid Neck pickup, not an entirely new set.

From what Pepe has posted, it seems he IS open to an entirely new design, while many members here strongly feel the decision to move forward with a neck companion to the 59/Custom hybrid was already decided upon before LtKojak took over the process.

Several members have inquired as to the context/goal of this design, but LtKojak's replies so far have essentially been "wait and see...". This uncertainty causes confusion, which results in the continued banter we're witnessing across different threads.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.