Ibanez wood fraud

[Mincer]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

To the OP: If I was going to be upset about anything, it would be that the body seems to be wrapped in about an 1/8" plastic coating. Maybe it's just the photo angle, but that "finish" looks bizarre.







Yamaha actually did something like this with their RGX A2 model:

The AGX A2 was a very light guitar, and a pretty awesome idea. But the marketing looked especially deceptive...a lot of words for what is essentially a form of plywood with balsa in the center.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

To the OP: If I was going to be upset about anything, it would be that the body seems to be wrapped in about an 1/8" plastic coating. Maybe it's just the photo angle, but that "finish" looks bizarre.

Yeah, so what... It's still a budget fiddle and should not be judged by the same standards as higher tier guitars...

Dear OP, no reason to be so butthurt about this simple fact, please read on.

It is the policy of all major brand name owners is that the entry level stuff should just about intonate and stay solid but if you want fancy features, you gotta pay up with diminishing returns. You can call it snob or you can say that discerning customers are welcome to open their wallets a little wider, it's the same thing in essence... Don't forget large scale guitar building is yet another money making machine and please adjust your expectations to reality.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

In internet slang, a troll is a person who starts flame wars or upsets people on the Internet by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] either for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.

Troll thread

 

[Erlend_G]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

Hey guys,

I think we gotta be gentle here,

OP's got a point.

If you're paying for an instrument, where the manufacturer states it's made out of "Wood A",
but you find out, that it's made out of "Wood B"- then yes, I'd state that the manufacturer is lieing,
and fooling their customers...

-Erl

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

Hey guys,

I think we gotta be gentle here,

OP's got a point.

If you're paying for an instrument, where the manufacturer states it's made out of "Wood A",
but you find out, that it's made out of "Wood B"- then yes, I'd state that the manufacturer is lieing,
and fooling their customers...

-Erl

You can't reliably make a state of the art musical instrument of this kind for $300 without ripping off your employees and your customers. Advertising is often quite disgusting in practice and while I couldn't blame a kid for being naive but adults are expected to do their due diligence and if not, it's by their own choice. Cheap guitars are being made of cheap materials, corners are cut, got promised champagne on a beer budget, surprised it wasn't quite delivered, I beg your pardon?

Every sales brochure should have a picture of an unfinished guitar next to the completed instruments. That way people still won’t know what they’re getting, but they’ll know what it looks like.

They should photograph each and every one? Or just one, specially prepared to look best? How's that for a choice?

 

[Erlend_G]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

^^ I still think it's bad practice, to advertise something for something it's not.

Regardless of it's a "cheap guitar" or a high-end Gibson.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

OP here, two things:

1) Not wholly unrelated: the bass sounded thin, and had weak sustain. Because the 2017 Ibz catalogue claimed the bass was made of mahogany, but the wood wasn't reddish (as I had understood mahogany to be), I assumed the bad sound was because they used an inferior wood, thus conning their customer (we are all customers here). Turns out adjusting the pickup height solved the tone/sustain problem really well. If the tone was good to begin with, I probably wouldn't have made such a big fuss about it.

2) Yes, I opted to use the strongest possible term ("fraud") in the title to get attention. Apparently it worked and I found the discussion very worthwhile. Thank you. I learned that some mahogany is white, that "mahogany" isn't strictly "mahogany", and so on. Also learned that adjusting pickup height does so very much for a bass (I'm primarily a guitar player), or maybe it's characteristic of the Powerspan pups to be so sensitive to pup height?

I agree that it is logical guitar manufacturers would lump similar wood types together under the same banner if that is what suppliers do too (it would be cumbersome, expensive and near impossible for manufacturers to figure out what kind of tree each batch really is). As said, if they really wanted only one exact type of wood, they may run out of supply. That is not feasable for mass produced budget guitars. Given how players are focused on tonewood names (mahogany, maple..) specifying all of this in the catalogues would be confusing and probably offputting. Ultimately, if it sounds good and plays well, who cares what it's made of? I don't. Quite happy with what the bass is for its price, tbh.

Thanks for chippin' in, y'all.

In his own post
Point #2
He admits to trolling

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

Maybe just use the word Mahogany with quotes like this

"Mahogany"

 

[solspirit]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

This is 10 years old so I'm sure there are more out there now.


https://www.woodworkerssource.com/blog/wood-conversations/mahogany/

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

Dear Watson, I have found no meaningful difference between furniture grade "mahogany" and pallet grade "poplar" or whatever species it might actually be or pose to be. At this price point it is either random leftovers or the cheapest stuff they could get their hands on. Any resonance it might have is coincidental; there isn't even a cork to sniff, just a plastic cap. Tonewood in cheap guitars is as plentiful as water in the desert but if you insist on searching, be my guest.

Just one. Prep it however they want, but at least everyone will know it’s not real mahogany.

A cheapo Ibby is not "real mahogany" but a lowly piece of nyatoh at best. It's not exactly a secret, nonetheless some people choose to kid themselves rather than ask.

The flaw in your reasoning is that one nicely made guitar in ten thousand is meaningless. As an extreme example, they could have a show piece ghostbuilt by an elite luthier for $10k and it would only take one extra dollar out of poor Joe's pocket to pay for the whole scheme.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

The AGX A2 was a very light guitar, and a pretty awesome idea. But the marketing looked especially deceptive...a lot of words for what is essentially a form of plywood with balsa in the center.

I always surf for RGX A2's...very cool axe. Don't care what it is made of.

 

[Erlend_G]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

So, more dishonesty. I don’t think someone buying a $300 necessarily deserves premium tonewoods, but they don’t deserve to be lied to.

no matter if you pay 300 dollars, or 3000 for a Gibson (or other)

You shouldn't be lied to.

My opinion ^^

 

[Aceman]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

Then you KNOW you shouldn't ever buy a $3k Gibson - because they absolutely lie about what went into that!

 

[solspirit]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

Dear Watson, I have found no meaningful difference between furniture grade "mahogany" and pallet grade "poplar" or whatever species it might actually be or pose to be. At this price point it is either random leftovers or the cheapest stuff they could get their hands on. Any resonance it might have is coincidental; there isn't even a cork to sniff, just a plastic cap. Tonewood in cheap guitars is as plentiful as water in the desert but if you insist on searching, be my guest.


A cheapo Ibby is not "real mahogany" but a lowly piece of nyatoh at best. It's not exactly a secret, nonetheless some people choose to kid themselves rather than ask.

The flaw in your reasoning is that one nicely made guitar in ten thousand is meaningless. As an extreme example, they could have a show piece ghostbuilt by an elite luthier for $10k and it would only take one extra dollar out of poor Joe's pocket to pay for the whole scheme.

unfortunately we live in a time where we really need to do our our own homework because we can't trust anyone but there should still be honesty in advertising. Regardless if Ibanez bought that wood as supposed mahogany, they have a responsibility as a manufacturer and international company to research it. They employ supposed professionals, there is no way that they didn't know what was going on. I don't give a rat's ass what it cost or what the price point was.

You can't tell me that Ibanez didn't know what it was. And there is no reason not to label it as it should be.

 

[solspirit]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

Does anyone really think that any large international wood instrument company would not know enough about wood to advertise something as something else not knowingly?
They did this because it was an accepted term in the furniture trade because, people are uninformed or uneducated about what they are buying.
there is no reason that every single guitar manufacturer cannot give the Latin or scientific name for every wood that they use therefore, eliminating any confusion.

 

[solspirit]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

But hey... Who needs regulations?
Lol

 

[Aceman]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

The bottom line here is the OP is being unreasonable - just like the Gibson chamber/short tenon people.

We could all rock a GR300 all night no problem. OP is more worried about the specs than actually playing/sound.

Deception not withstanding, which is wrong....

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud (or not)?

Re: Ibanez wood fraud (or not)?

I checked the serial number, she is from the year 2017, and so supposed to have a mahogany body, according to Ibanez's catalogues.


I bought it because their 2017 catalogue said it was mahogany.

The bottom line here is the OP is being unreasonable .

Actually, this is the bottom line......literally, the bottom line of Page 1 in the 2017 catalog. "All specifications are subject to change without notice.".

http://resources.ibanez.com/resourceservicehost/images/ibanez/web/Cms/3051/17_Ibanez_Catalog.pdf

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

There is nowhere for this conversation to go until it is proven that the wood in question is not actually something that is routinely called "mahogany" in the wood trade.

Again, hundreds of different types of trees, spanning a variety of characteristics, are routinely sold as "mahogany" – wood-industry-wide, not just in relation to guitars.

 

[solspirit]

Re: Ibanez wood fraud

I don’t see why we can’t continue to talk about what we think is ethical behavior for a guitar company and what are reasonable expectations for a consumer. Of course, we also welcome any insights into how the guitar industry and wood trade actually work.

This