Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
- Thread starter Joejitsu
- Start date
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
I have been a hard rock and metal guy all my life. Ive watched the trends.. come..and go.... I loved 80s metal and yes, alot of it got schlocky, and once it started selling, the quality of new bands coming out went downhill. Were just parodys of the originals... (took about a decade to fade) 90's, we had grunge. more bands came along in the same vein, parodys of the originals... Numetal. Never got much into it as Im not much of a rap fan... but bands trying to cash in.. NOW... most of the stuff out now.... Went from 0-100 almost overnight. everytime I hear or read about a hot new band, I check em out. Bored stiff immediately. sounded just the same. downtuned guitars, same sludgy riffs, same growling vocal. Now, the hot new trend is female lead singers, but same style of music.
Few bands have caught my interest in recent years. A7X for one, cuz they have tasty guitar playing and actual singing. I kinda like motionless in white. just cuz they are alil different.
But, mostly these days, its the originals, Beatles, Zepp , cream
signed,
Old Guy on Soapbox
I have been a hard rock and metal guy all my life. Ive watched the trends.. come..and go.... I loved 80s metal and yes, alot of it got schlocky, and once it started selling, the quality of new bands coming out went downhill. Were just parodys of the originals... (took about a decade to fade) 90's, we had grunge. more bands came along in the same vein, parodys of the originals... Numetal. Never got much into it as Im not much of a rap fan... but bands trying to cash in.. NOW... most of the stuff out now.... Went from 0-100 almost overnight. everytime I hear or read about a hot new band, I check em out. Bored stiff immediately. sounded just the same. downtuned guitars, same sludgy riffs, same growling vocal. Now, the hot new trend is female lead singers, but same style of music.
Few bands have caught my interest in recent years. A7X for one, cuz they have tasty guitar playing and actual singing. I kinda like motionless in white. just cuz they are alil different.
But, mostly these days, its the originals, Beatles, Zepp , cream
signed,
Old Guy on Soapbox
NegativeEase
New member
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
You don't know what you are talking about. That progression came out of a Mel Bay Guitar Book published in the late 40s and is at least verifiably hundreds of years older. It was a standard ingrained in all young guitarists subconsciously in the same way the Sweet Child Of Mine riff was taken from a standard exercise by Slash.
By the way Led Zepplin won the court case largely on the grounds that this is just building on musical movements and foundations that have been shared since the Renaissance era.
You don't know what you are talking about. That progression came out of a Mel Bay Guitar Book published in the late 40s and is at least verifiably hundreds of years older. It was a standard ingrained in all young guitarists subconsciously in the same way the Sweet Child Of Mine riff was taken from a standard exercise by Slash.
By the way Led Zepplin won the court case largely on the grounds that this is just building on musical movements and foundations that have been shared since the Renaissance era.
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
NegativeEase
New member
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
I think someone needs to explain to you how sharing and co-opting art works.
Musicians are a subconscious summary of all the music they have consumed in their life (including in the womb) -it is inescapable
So if an artist shares anything -it is no longer theirs -it is now part of others, and it is doubtful that it ever was theirs as it is the culmination of the art that has been shared with them.
There is so little "original" -everything is permutations of foundational ideas mixed and represented.
-and citing court cases pressed by record companies and decided by juries who have no concept isn't proof either.
I think someone needs to explain to you how sharing and co-opting art works.
Musicians are a subconscious summary of all the music they have consumed in their life (including in the womb) -it is inescapable
So if an artist shares anything -it is no longer theirs -it is now part of others, and it is doubtful that it ever was theirs as it is the culmination of the art that has been shared with them.
There is so little "original" -everything is permutations of foundational ideas mixed and represented.
-and citing court cases pressed by record companies and decided by juries who have no concept isn't proof either.
Francois
New member
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
Page is too famous to be labelled as "underrated" but I agree he's one of the greatest.
And he's amongst my favorites together with Gilmour and Hendrix.
Just think of all he created from scratch (but yes with many influences) that did not existed before.
Page is too famous to be labelled as "underrated" but I agree he's one of the greatest.
And he's amongst my favorites together with Gilmour and Hendrix.
Just think of all he created from scratch (but yes with many influences) that did not existed before.
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
1st, try to talk like an adult, The video is there, so I don't know how your "You don't know what you are talking about" response might be perceived in order to make some (minimal) sense
2nd, when someone asks a question like : "what's your opinion on this?, have you seen this?", it doesn't mean that he immediately wears his helmet and full armor and takes position for combat. I might very well mean that he simply asks a question. Ever thought of that?
3rd, you yourself downpayed the role of outcome of the trial so it would be wise not to use this argument.
1st, try to talk like an adult, The video is there, so I don't know how your "You don't know what you are talking about" response might be perceived in order to make some (minimal) sense
2nd, when someone asks a question like : "what's your opinion on this?, have you seen this?", it doesn't mean that he immediately wears his helmet and full armor and takes position for combat. I might very well mean that he simply asks a question. Ever thought of that?
3rd, you yourself downpayed the role of outcome of the trial so it would be wise not to use this argument.
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
(western)Music only has 7 notes + semitones, this is inevitable, but the difference is between "modification" and copying 90+% of the original.
(western)Music only has 7 notes + semitones, this is inevitable, but the difference is between "modification" and copying 90+% of the original.
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
As much of a Page fan as I was when I was younger, I think of his era (mid 60s-mid 70s), Jeff Beck was a much better player. His recorded output could be spotty, and the production on his albums wasn't always great (though I love Blow by Blow and Wired), and he certainly didn't have the riffs and power of Page, his intensity and musical vocabulary was more advanced (and is, still).
As much of a Page fan as I was when I was younger, I think of his era (mid 60s-mid 70s), Jeff Beck was a much better player. His recorded output could be spotty, and the production on his albums wasn't always great (though I love Blow by Blow and Wired), and he certainly didn't have the riffs and power of Page, his intensity and musical vocabulary was more advanced (and is, still).
NegativeEase
New member
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
1) In rereading, I agree that my first comment sounds course. My apologies. It's the internet -it's serious business man -
2) yeah, fair to ask your opinion -especially being Greek you should be well versed in the art of dialectic -it's just this video doesn't actually mean anything (see below) -it's pretty unfair criticism of Page (A guitar player that I'm not that into by the way) who is doing what every artist does either on purpose or subconsciously. The artists that video references didn't purely create those either -they just managed to license enough of something they were influenced by to meet a legal definition which is arbitrarily set by NON-Artists to protect and encourage a commercial market.
3) the legal arguments aren't even relevant -it's Art and nothing is purely original -everything is a culmination of subconscious and conscious exposure from other artists and then regurgitated in a new artistic permutation -you cannot own art. You can only own a commercial product (intellectual or Physical) under laws of licensing and resale -which does not reflect the concept of true originality -only first to market or reserving rights. So it's worthless to harp on court cases anyways -they are not relevant to the criticism of originality.
1) In rereading, I agree that my first comment sounds course. My apologies. It's the internet -it's serious business man -
2) yeah, fair to ask your opinion -especially being Greek you should be well versed in the art of dialectic -it's just this video doesn't actually mean anything (see below) -it's pretty unfair criticism of Page (A guitar player that I'm not that into by the way) who is doing what every artist does either on purpose or subconsciously. The artists that video references didn't purely create those either -they just managed to license enough of something they were influenced by to meet a legal definition which is arbitrarily set by NON-Artists to protect and encourage a commercial market.
3) the legal arguments aren't even relevant -it's Art and nothing is purely original -everything is a culmination of subconscious and conscious exposure from other artists and then regurgitated in a new artistic permutation -you cannot own art. You can only own a commercial product (intellectual or Physical) under laws of licensing and resale -which does not reflect the concept of true originality -only first to market or reserving rights. So it's worthless to harp on court cases anyways -they are not relevant to the criticism of originality.
NegativeEase
New member
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
"Original" is the problem here -there is rarely such a thing.
Everything is a mixed permutation of established art.
"Original" is the problem here -there is rarely such a thing.
Everything is a mixed permutation of established art.
NegativeEase
New member
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
I don't think anybody can argue with this. Beck is so fantastic technically.
but Page's legacy is a prolific influence not guitar technique so I still don't think he's "overrated"
People are rating Page for the wrong reasons if his wasted fumbling and comical bends are their measure of him.
I don't think anybody can argue with this. Beck is so fantastic technically.
but Page's legacy is a prolific influence not guitar technique so I still don't think he's "overrated"
People are rating Page for the wrong reasons if his wasted fumbling and comical bends are their measure of him.
B
Ben1962
Guest
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
Nobody ever thinks of Presence. Like Animals with Floyd and yet both were awesome IMO
Nobody ever thinks of Presence. Like Animals with Floyd and yet both were awesome IMO
B
Ben1962
Guest
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
Baldurs Gate 2? LOL The golden age of gaming
Baldurs Gate 2? LOL The golden age of gaming
JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
People **** on Kirk Hammett and Lars Ulrich a lot. Lots of people who didn’t come up with the riff or arrangement for “Enter Sandman.”
People **** on Kirk Hammett and Lars Ulrich a lot. Lots of people who didn’t come up with the riff or arrangement for “Enter Sandman.”
B
Ben1962
Guest
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
I would never call a guy like the Edge over rated. How can you diss such a prolific guitar player that was loved by so many. But for ME, I never liked U2. Two Hearts beat as one and then?? I bet I never kept one of their songs on for its duration on the radio, EVER. But I cant argue with his success, just not my cup of tea.
I would never call a guy like the Edge over rated. How can you diss such a prolific guitar player that was loved by so many. But for ME, I never liked U2. Two Hearts beat as one and then?? I bet I never kept one of their songs on for its duration on the radio, EVER. But I cant argue with his success, just not my cup of tea.
B
Ben1962
Guest
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
Ever hear of bands like Riverside, Porcupine Tree and other Europeans along the more prog vein? Teramaze is another great one, its just the corporate radio stations will never play the great music, but its out there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0dcHowr6dU Killer song, little long but art at its best IMO
Ever hear of bands like Riverside, Porcupine Tree and other Europeans along the more prog vein? Teramaze is another great one, its just the corporate radio stations will never play the great music, but its out there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0dcHowr6dU Killer song, little long but art at its best IMO
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justFred
Well-known member
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
Beck had/has riffs and power that Page never could touch. The Jeff Beck group demonstrates this and Blow by Blow underlines it. Beck choose an artists course for his playing and is still painting gorgeous musical pictures that don't need to be riffy and power soaked...that is how it seems to me...
Page was the basic top 40s player that influenced millions of guitarists...take him out of the history of rock and you find a huge empty spot...
Clapton, Beck and Page each in their own way set the course...others followed...maybe???
Beck had/has riffs and power that Page never could touch. The Jeff Beck group demonstrates this and Blow by Blow underlines it. Beck choose an artists course for his playing and is still painting gorgeous musical pictures that don't need to be riffy and power soaked...that is how it seems to me...
Page was the basic top 40s player that influenced millions of guitarists...take him out of the history of rock and you find a huge empty spot...
Clapton, Beck and Page each in their own way set the course...others followed...maybe???
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
Funny, we appear to have recently started another thread in the "overrated guitar players" department.
Funny, we appear to have recently started another thread in the "overrated guitar players" department.
Silence Kid
New member
Re: Is Jimmy Page the most overrated guitarist?
Beck is the one I never really got. Picked up a few of his solo albums, it just seems well, innovative but... Too spacey. I enjoy his work most with Rod Stewart, but I think it doesn't really stand out too much either in all honesty, unless he's getting spacey. Clapton is probably my favorite of that trio, but I guess I prefer Hendrix overall.
Beck is the one I never really got. Picked up a few of his solo albums, it just seems well, innovative but... Too spacey. I enjoy his work most with Rod Stewart, but I think it doesn't really stand out too much either in all honesty, unless he's getting spacey. Clapton is probably my favorite of that trio, but I guess I prefer Hendrix overall.
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