Is Rock Guitar Dead?

[shredaholic]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

We as guitarists must face the fact that musical tastes are changing away from guitar music. Rap, Hip-Hop and Pop music are basically guitar free and guitar solos are a thing of the past as far as these genres are concerned.

the only reason guitar solos died out is because some yuppies at NME and the like made everybody think that they were uncool, something of a joke.

pop music isnt guitar free - in fact its the opposite, record companies are now fitting their boy bands with electric guitars (unplugged ones) and telling the little kids they're real rock musicians

bands nowadays try and stand out and be different by either acting really depressed and suicidal (emo) or trying to be as heavy as possible (modern 'metal'), by tuning their guitars like basses, and screaming down a microphone like theyre playing the part of the gimp from pulp fiction - :duh: :cool3:

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

the only reason guitar solos died out is because some yuppies at NME and the like made everybody think that they were uncool, something of a joke.

Look at what was going on then- poodle rock was a joke. Bands were excuses for getting together and making your hair look better than your girlfriends. Songs were excuses for soul-less one-upsmanship solos. I'd rather hear Slash ripping away some pentatonic minor slop than anything by Vito Bratta, Nuno Bettencort, or whoever else were the "stars" of guitar back in those days.

 

[shredaholic]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

Look at what was going on then- poodle rock was a joke. Bands were excuses for getting together and making your hair look better than your girlfriends. Songs were excuses for soul-less one-upsmanship solos. I'd rather hear Slash ripping away some pentatonic minor slop than anything by Vito Bratta, Nuno Bettencort, or whoever else were the "stars" of guitar back in those days.

but thats still a guitar solo...

 

[Pink Unicorn Horsey]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

Rock guitar doesn't have to be about virtuosity; what's more impressive is evolution. Kurt Cobain did something to evolve -- or at least transform -- rock guitar. Same with Jack White. Jonny Greenwood is doing that through his use of effects.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

the only reason guitar solos died out is because some yuppies at NME and the like made everybody think that they were uncool, something of a joke.

Actualy, the reason guitar solos died out was because they became tedious. Maybe I'm in the minority (I doubt it), but Vai, Satriani, MacAlpine, and all the other shred guitarists and shred guitar music in general bore me.

The solos make no sense.

At one point in time, it seemed like the song was written because of the solo, not the other way around.

Don't get me wrong, I like litening to and playing solos, but they do have their time and place.

for example, compare anything by Vai with the David Lee Roth Band and anything put out by Brian May with Queen. I think that we can all agree tha both are technically accomplished players. The difference is that May's solos are musical; you can hum along to them. Try doing that with a Vai solo.

Unfortunately, most guitarists who want to be technical go with the Vai style of playing. They play a billion notes per minute, but never really say anything with them. To the casual listener (most people who buy CD's), that's all just noise. Granted it's very hard to play that way, and I respect people who can do it, but to me, it's also noise.

 

[jayK]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

Rock guitar is not dead and will never die.

I think many people have touched on the major problem here is that the companies who control the music probably filter out 99% of the guys who might be considered innovative or different that wont fit into the cookie cutter mold of the moment, so that makes it tough right off the bat.

That being said, the players that have inspired me to pick up a guitar are the ones that can convey emotion and not just technical brilliance (Neil Young, David Gilmour, Slash, Hendrix, Duane Allman & Richard Betts, Robert Cray, Clapton).

This may be a big generalization, but I think many current guitarists focus on shredding or banging out scary dark riffs instead of shaping solos with emotional power. In that way I think anybody can learn from the great masters of old, but the trick is to make your own unique sound and embed emotion into your music, which aint easy to do. Even if you go back to the original masters of dark metal, Sabbath & Zeppelin, they were "musical". A lot of these new bands to me do not sound musical, they sound murky & soulless.


If you take Neil Young, for example, I'm sure many of you gunslingers would say his playing is primitive, but I would rather listen to him play than anybody else in the world because for whatever reason his playing touches me on some level that I cant even understand myself.

I think there will always be a place for the guitar player who can touch people, I'm sure more will come along and I'm sure they are out there right now, its just that you may have not heard them yet.

BTW, I hate to knock people, John Mayer is a pretty decent player, and I dont think he's a bad guy or anything, but if he's the future of guitar we are all in trouble! And his singing is bizarre, he's got this weird mumble mouth thing going that I just dont get!

BTW, I had to go back & edit this post because the software edited out part of Richard Betts' name when I used the first name he is more commonly known as, how ridiculous is that?

 

[Pink Unicorn Horsey]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

Actualy, the reason guitar solos died out was because they became tedious. Maybe I'm in the minority (I doubt it), but Vai, Satriani, MacAlpine, and all the other shred guitarists and shred guitar music in general bore me.

The solos make no sense.

At one point in time, it seemed like the song was written because of the solo, not the other way around.

Don't get me wrong, I like litening to and playing solos, but they do have their time and place.

for example, compare anything by Vai with the David Lee Roth Band and anything put out by Brian May with Queen. I think that we can all agree tha both are technically accomplished players. The difference is that May's solos are musical; you can hum along to them. Try doing that with a Vai solo.

Unfortunately, most guitarists who want to be technical go with the Vai style of playing. They play a billion notes per minute, but never really say anything with them. To the casual listener (most people who buy CD's), that's all just noise. Granted it's very hard to play that way, and I respect people who can do it, but to me, it's also noise.

+1, although the shredding is very impressive and I wish I could do it.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

Actualy, the reason guitar solos died out was because they became tedious. Maybe I'm in the minority (I doubt it), but Vai, Satriani, MacAlpine, and all the other shred guitarists and shred guitar music in general bore me.

If you're in the minority, I am too.

 

[Dankerella]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

It's just morphed. You have so many amazing players in so many different genres, and no one likes the same genres anymore. Rock used to be rock. Now there's classic rock, death metal, Swedish chef metal, etc. If EVH is so inspiring, why do I currently listen to Alex Scholnick, Michael Ammott, Eric Sardinas, etc. rather than Eddie? Sure he was great and influenced many to pick up the guitar, but most of those people that picked it up put it back down. In my eyes, a band with players in bands like Iron Maiden, who still tour heavily, haven't broken up to go make hot sauces (Micheal Anthony) or tequila (Hagar), and haven't had their blood turned into pure grain alcholol (EVH), is much more inspiring.

 

[jonnymangia]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

for example, compare anything by Vai with the David Lee Roth Band and anything put out by Brian May with Queen. I think that we can all agree tha both are technically accomplished players. The difference is that May's solos are musical; you can hum along to them. Try doing that with a Vai solo.

This is a great example. I would take the short solo in "We Will Rock You" over any of these shred-fest opus' in a heartbeat. It takes a page from the BB King school of playing - if you got it, you can squeeze more out of a few notes rather than a billion. And my bro brought up the same point last night when talking about the ability to hum a solo. He used Ritchie Blackmore as an example of a guy with insane chops who can shred but he does it tastefully, where it's melodic.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

Unfortunately there's only a small handful of shredders from the 80's that actually could play soulfully and made memorable solos (IMO anyway). Some of Reb Beach's work comes to mind. I wouldn't call Mick Mars a shredder but many of his solos are memorable. You can hear them without the rest of the song. They just work. But yeah, most of it then sounded like minor scale and mode runs all over the place with nothing to remember other than the dude's hair.

Rock guitar isn't dead, it's just taking a well deserved nap.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

I have always considered myself first and foremost a songwriter, and a guitarist second. I use the guitar as a tool to perform my songs, whatever shape or form they may take.

I have been acutely aware recently that what we refer to as "guitar rock" is becoming somewhat of a dead or dying genre, and frankly this does not upset me at all. Guitar rock has run its course for the most part, and although there are still lots of great players, very little is being done to innovate with regards to the role of the guitar in popular music.

This is one of the reasons why I am looking forward to starting a new band when I move to Vancouver. I want to start something completely unique, something that will turn heads and make people say "what the hell kind of a band is that?" I still intend to play guitar, but I don't intend to anchor myself to the blues/classic rock rut that most guitarists (myself included) are stuck in. I realize that means I will have to learn a lot more about my instrument and how it's played, as well as a lot more about music theory, and I am ready for that challenge.

This is also why I have been keen on resonator guitars lately, and why I am also getting curious about synth effects for guitar. I am looking to break away from the Les Paul/Marshall Stack cliche (or its modern cousin, the PRS/Dual Rectifier cliche).

Anyway, the point of this whole rant is that I know guitar rock is dying and I don't care ... I have already moved on.

 

[mind_transplant]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

Just because something is struggling commercially, that doesn't mean it's dead. I think we tend to look back on the "guitar gods" of yesterday with rose-colored glasses as many of them either struggled just to get a steady gig when starting, or never made a big impact apart from on fellow musicians. Hendrix kept getting fired as a sideman, couldn't afford a decent guitar, and was living pretty much hand-to-mouth until he got his break. Tommy Bolin kept getting arrested, beat up and run out of town for years, and never in his lifetime achieved any real popularity. Frank Zappa wasn't exactly a Top-40 hit machine. Buddy Guy and Stanley Jordan started playing on street corners becuase they couldn't get real gigs, and Van Halen had a tough time getting into clubs. I mean, Roy Buchanan hung himself for Christ's sake...

Is there still great guitar music these days? I feel there is. I think Vai's newest album is very interesting. I have some friends big into the jam band scene which is in great shape, and I feel Warren Haynes can rip it up with the best. Shawn Lane was awe-inspiring on his albums with Jonas Hellborg, and while I'm not the bigest fan, Zakk is pretty sharp and uses country licks in a neat way, Buckethead is another unique newer guy. You also have guys like Ry Cooder who are really pushing the envelope. I'm guessing few people listen to his current stuff (or even his older stuff) but it's brilliant, few people have the guts or talent to make folk/world music concept albums. Now you may be saying "that's not ROCK guitar" it's fusion or metal or blues or what have you. What I'm getting at is that if you're expecting the days of Page & Clapton or Van Halen & Rhoads, accept that it's in the past. I still listen to it all the time but we live in a new century.

I just have the feeling that what's happening to guitar-driven rock now is what happened to traditional jazz an blues in the late 70s and 80s. It may not be the hot scene anymore, but that doesn't mean it's dead, or even down for good... you never know when a Stevie Ray or Wynton will come along (though I hope it's not a Wynton, that guy's a ****ing bastard :fing25: )

Sorry for the long post. :smack:

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

But what are modern blues players doing that hasn't been done before? This isn't to say it isn't good, it is basically the same vocabulary, the same set of influences. Their CDs seem to have 1 slow song, 1 shuffle, maybe 1 swing with horns, same licks.

I don't really hear that. To me artists like Susan Tedeschi and Tommy Castro and Tinsley Ellis are taking their influences and going in totally different directions. I'm not hearing the same-old same-old from these players.

I will say that yes, it's easy to make a cliche Blues album. And yes, even the most cliched album will likely do well. But there's a ton of Blues players out there only tracking one 12-bar progression per album; one song amongst a ton of others.

Metal guitar has a similar fate- you can only tune so low, play so fast, use the same tone, make the same scary, evil faces. 99% of metal songs are still based on power chords. All are based on distortion. No wonder most older folk can't tell the bands apart. This doesn't mean they don't have good songs, it just means it has been awhile since there was something brand new.

I see modern metal as being very evolutionary. The two bands I specifically listed are NOT just power-chords.

EVH shattered what a rock guitarist should be up to that point.

Yes...and it's all well and good that he did it. But if you're going to demand ultimate innovation from all facets of a player then he'd of been wearing the "has been" label almost a decade ago.

This necessity to refer to someone as a sacred cow rather than adress the overwhelming problem of someones tastes just not evolving is a major part of the problem.

Great music and great guitar playing is alive and well. I take issue with folks saying otherwise when the problem seems to be more likely that they can't recognize it unless it's got poofy hair and spandex shorts.

 

[Forbes]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

If you're in the minority, I am too.

I'm in the 'minority' too.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

If you're in the minority, I am too.

Looks like I'm in the minority as well.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

yes, it's dead, but i don't particularly care if it comes back either

Neither do I. I don't want to see blues/rock bands playing on TRL, the BS that comes with all of that will attempt to suck the soul out of it. I enjoy blues and blues/rock locally and I'm glad that the people who like it are people like me or 40+ yr. old guys. :laugh2:

This ties in with the youth thread that we had earlier. I really have no interest in seeing more people my age listening to rock/blues.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

SEVERAL ISSUES TO CONSIDER:

1) Rock (as is the case with all music styles except maybe classical) has morphed into so many different sub-genres with significant followings that it is harder than ever before to have a single group that appeals to a huge number of people. When you said rock-n-roll 40 years ago, say no more, people knew exactly what you meant. Now you have to name 3 or 4 different bands to make clear what KIND of rock you mean.

(If that doesn't make it clear, think back to 60 or 70 years ago, the FDR years. Popular music was swing. Period. If it wasn't on the Hit Parade, nobody ever heard of it. Blues and country were localized styles that had only cult followings. Classical was reserved for the upper crust.)

2) Just plain ol' fashion (e.g., clothes) is extremely expensive for youth to keep up with. Back in the 60's and early 70's it was the reverse -- you were rebelling by wearing crappy clothes, letting your hair grow out and showering once in a while. Keeping up with "fashion" in those days actually saved you money so you had a little extra cash to buy that Kent or Silvertone beginner guitar.

Today you have to have just the right $300 sneakers in just the right color for the day of the week in question, plenty of bling-bling, the right Abercrombie & Fitch or whoever is the store or label of the day, etc.

There's no money left over to buy a beginner guitar -- which is especially sad because beginner guitars today are of higher quality than mid-level guitars back then.

3) Of kids that do show an interest in learning guitar, these days I run into a modern phenomenon brought to you by the short attention span entertainment and computer industry. They want to learn to play guitar without having to learn to play guitar. One guy in particular was just dumbfounded when I explained that modern technology had not yet come up with a shortcut to learning to play an instrument.

4) Are Britney & Co. popular because kids actually LIKE it -- or because it's the only thing they KNOW? My theory is that the vast majority of people at a club or a concert or even turning on the radio to hit stations are doing so because it is the place to be or the thing to do, not because they have a personal passion for the music. I think this has ALWAYS been the case. Not everybody at the Cotton Club was into the music, most were there for the drinks and the girls or the guys, because that's where everybody was. Most moved on to rock-n-roll and soul when the swing and bop days died down. Because that's where the girls, guys and drinks moved on to.

I believe that serious music fans of all styles have always been a pretty small minority. The proof is that the real music lovers still like what they like long after everyone else has moved on to The Next Big Thing and disavowed in Orwellian fashion ever liking the music they raved about before because (cue girly lip-snap, sigh), "it's so...last week..." For most people, even music is just a me-too fashion statement.

There are plenty of great guitar players but everyone is into so much different stuff and most people are (and always have been) fickle about what they like that the chances of any genre of music dominating popular music the way it used to 40 years ago are extremely slim.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

Well said, Zhangliqun.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?

As for Satriani, Vai, McAlpine, Ingvie, etc., I bow to their technical greatness but as composers or songwriters, I'm sorry...they just flat out suck. Don't show me your Johnson, give me a SONG for God's sake!!!!

I think the ideal is to blend their technical ability with Neil Young-type passion. Just to grab a name out of the air, I think Jimmy Page came the closest to that in the rock realm, but was still far from the ideal. Overall, Pat Metheny comes closest for me but even he has some work to do (hey, you're never supposed to really reach any ideal anyway, right?)

There may be others I can't think of at the moment or never heard of yet, but you get the idea.