Is Rock Guitar Dead?
- Thread starter jonnymangia
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big_black
Opaqueologist
Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?
As I said- minimalism and the idea behind those sounds in the context of that time in music history. The idea behind the music is what is revolutionary, not the act of him putting his guitar up to his amp and making feedback. It's about context, it's about unconventional thought.
Are Glenn Branca's compositions revolutionary? I'm not an expert, but I'd venture to say not very. What is revolutionary is the idea of taking 100 guitars tuning groups of these guitars to a single note, and forming a symphonic arrangement around them. Brilliance.
Zhangliqun said:
As I said- minimalism and the idea behind those sounds in the context of that time in music history. The idea behind the music is what is revolutionary, not the act of him putting his guitar up to his amp and making feedback. It's about context, it's about unconventional thought.
Are Glenn Branca's compositions revolutionary? I'm not an expert, but I'd venture to say not very. What is revolutionary is the idea of taking 100 guitars tuning groups of these guitars to a single note, and forming a symphonic arrangement around them. Brilliance.
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Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?
I am a Holdsworth fan too- his ideas on guitar are so far outside the mainstream, most guitarists would stop learning his stuff after the first 3 or 4 seconds- really.
'Guitar as a tool for songwriting' is just fine, but it isn't where I want to go with my instrument. For one, I don't accept the commercial idea of what a 'song' is. 3 or 4 minutes of supporting the lyrics? That is fine, and there is a huge history of people doing that, and doing a great job. If we can accept that a 'song' could be a collection of guitar and non-guitar like noises that go on for a little while, then it might be ok for us to accept that 'standard' song forms are not the only way to make music (Indian ragas go onfor hours with no repetition). Or maybe that clean, crunch and super distort-a-rama are not the only 3 choices of electric guitar sounds. Or we don't have to build chords based on 3rds or 5ths. Or try songs with no repeating parts, over 1 chord, or no chords at all. These are just ideas, and certainly fun to explore.
I am a Holdsworth fan too- his ideas on guitar are so far outside the mainstream, most guitarists would stop learning his stuff after the first 3 or 4 seconds- really.
'Guitar as a tool for songwriting' is just fine, but it isn't where I want to go with my instrument. For one, I don't accept the commercial idea of what a 'song' is. 3 or 4 minutes of supporting the lyrics? That is fine, and there is a huge history of people doing that, and doing a great job. If we can accept that a 'song' could be a collection of guitar and non-guitar like noises that go on for a little while, then it might be ok for us to accept that 'standard' song forms are not the only way to make music (Indian ragas go onfor hours with no repetition). Or maybe that clean, crunch and super distort-a-rama are not the only 3 choices of electric guitar sounds. Or we don't have to build chords based on 3rds or 5ths. Or try songs with no repeating parts, over 1 chord, or no chords at all. These are just ideas, and certainly fun to explore.
Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?
I'm guilty of that.
My old guitar teacher loaned me a Holdsworth instructional video, and I ended up just watching the thing in the end, it was way over my head.
Mind you it was probably nearly two years ago now maybe it'd make more sense if I watched it again
Mincer said:
I'm guilty of that.
My old guitar teacher loaned me a Holdsworth instructional video, and I ended up just watching the thing in the end, it was way over my head.
Mind you it was probably nearly two years ago now maybe it'd make more sense if I watched it again
marvar
New member
Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?
I think we should keep in mind that most of what we are able to listen to, thru radio/TV and cd's- is all influenced by the major labels- they pretty much decide what is played/recorded/distributed, and it's all bottom line driven by them. I think that there are still some amazing guitarist out there- we just don't get much of a chance to hear them. But what goes around, comes around, and sooner or later, someone will emerge as the next in the lineage of guitar greats.
I think we should keep in mind that most of what we are able to listen to, thru radio/TV and cd's- is all influenced by the major labels- they pretty much decide what is played/recorded/distributed, and it's all bottom line driven by them. I think that there are still some amazing guitarist out there- we just don't get much of a chance to hear them. But what goes around, comes around, and sooner or later, someone will emerge as the next in the lineage of guitar greats.
Quencho092
New member
Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?
To tell the truth, I don't really give a crap if rock guitar 'dies'. There will always still be good rock bands out there to see, just as old school jazz isn't the hippest thing in the 'top 40', but there's a bucketload of great artists out there to listen to even after it 'died'.
Who cares if you can't turn on a top 40 radio station and listen to some good rock guitar music? That's what a CD player is for! I haven't listened to the radio at all for the past two years except for 88.9 serious jazz for local jazz artists, and latin music. Will rock guitar ever die for me? Nope-I still got all the classics on CD to listen to even after it isn't hip anymore.
I don't care if the artist I'm listening to is popular-I listen because I like the music, not because all my friends like the music.
To tell the truth, I don't really give a crap if rock guitar 'dies'. There will always still be good rock bands out there to see, just as old school jazz isn't the hippest thing in the 'top 40', but there's a bucketload of great artists out there to listen to even after it 'died'.
Who cares if you can't turn on a top 40 radio station and listen to some good rock guitar music? That's what a CD player is for! I haven't listened to the radio at all for the past two years except for 88.9 serious jazz for local jazz artists, and latin music. Will rock guitar ever die for me? Nope-I still got all the classics on CD to listen to even after it isn't hip anymore.
I don't care if the artist I'm listening to is popular-I listen because I like the music, not because all my friends like the music.
jonnymangia
New member
Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?
Wow, I didn't think I'd see 80+ replies when I started this thread...must have hit a nerve!
I don't think rock guitar is dead. It just needs someone to come along, armed with some fresh ideas and great songs to wake it up. I thought it was going to be someone from the "alternative" scene, like a Dave Navarro or Kevin Shields from My Bloody Valentine, who sounded very ,very different when they were playing in the late 80's early 90's. Oh well. Maybe someone will come along and cross-pollinate rock's blues foundation with world music. I mean, ****, that's how it all began...the blues as we know it came from West African tribal music. We have the tools (the Les Paul and the Marshall amps) we just need some fresh ideas filled with SOUL and EMOTION!
Wow, I didn't think I'd see 80+ replies when I started this thread...must have hit a nerve!
I don't think rock guitar is dead. It just needs someone to come along, armed with some fresh ideas and great songs to wake it up. I thought it was going to be someone from the "alternative" scene, like a Dave Navarro or Kevin Shields from My Bloody Valentine, who sounded very ,very different when they were playing in the late 80's early 90's. Oh well. Maybe someone will come along and cross-pollinate rock's blues foundation with world music. I mean, ****, that's how it all began...the blues as we know it came from West African tribal music. We have the tools (the Les Paul and the Marshall amps) we just need some fresh ideas filled with SOUL and EMOTION!
Quencho092
New member
Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?
I think this links back to my thread about the black people's uncanny abilities in music.
If anybody is going to make something new and totally different, but still rock, it's gonna be an African American. Who knows, maybe somewhere in America there's a new style brewing or being thought up just as we speak. I respect their amazing talents with regards to music (except hip hop, but heck, after blues, jazz, rock, funk, and R&B, give me a break!) and wait anxiously for the next great thing!
I think this links back to my thread about the black people's uncanny abilities in music.
If anybody is going to make something new and totally different, but still rock, it's gonna be an African American. Who knows, maybe somewhere in America there's a new style brewing or being thought up just as we speak. I respect their amazing talents with regards to music (except hip hop, but heck, after blues, jazz, rock, funk, and R&B, give me a break!) and wait anxiously for the next great thing!
gOgIver
New member
Smells like "We're Not Gonna Take It"
Smells like "We're Not Gonna Take It"
It's sad that he get's the blame for that because mostly all of his "Mtv hit videos", except perhaps Lithium, have leads on them. He also played a killer version of the Zep "Heartbreaker" solo in Miami '93. Granted afterwards the Bass player called him a "regular Ying Yang ValveStain" :laugh2: but it's really an unfair myth. "I'll take all the blame" :blackeye:
Smells like "We're Not Gonna Take It"
Zhangliqun said:
It's sad that he get's the blame for that because mostly all of his "Mtv hit videos", except perhaps Lithium, have leads on them. He also played a killer version of the Zep "Heartbreaker" solo in Miami '93. Granted afterwards the Bass player called him a "regular Ying Yang ValveStain" :laugh2: but it's really an unfair myth. "I'll take all the blame" :blackeye:
sooperunkn
New member
Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?
You should all do yourselves a favor and buy the "Free So Free" album by J. Mascis & The Fog and put track number 9 "Say The Word" on repeat with your stereo cranked to 11.
New "rock guitar" is non-existent on the radio so stop listening to it 'cause it will only get worse if their audience grows... buy records instead and be more proactive about obtaining good music (read: kick-a$$ guitar)... it's out there.
You should all do yourselves a favor and buy the "Free So Free" album by J. Mascis & The Fog and put track number 9 "Say The Word" on repeat with your stereo cranked to 11.
New "rock guitar" is non-existent on the radio so stop listening to it 'cause it will only get worse if their audience grows... buy records instead and be more proactive about obtaining good music (read: kick-a$$ guitar)... it's out there.
Frantic_Rock
FragleRockologist
Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?
Not as long as I am alive.
Neither is jazz!
Not as long as I am alive.
Neither is jazz!
T
theodie
Guest
Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?
Also classic rock and southern rock. It sounds like those genres with a pedal steel guitar added also.danglybanger said:you're right in retrospect. country has turned into pop.
slade
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?
Yup. Some of the country now isn't really country at all. The only thing making some of the stuff country is that it came out of Nashville.
It's funny, as a teenager I couldn't stand a lot of country. I got in to it more with Garth Brooks yet I always admired Alabama. Then, I meet my wife 8 years ago and we end up expanding each others' musical tastes. Now, there's several country bands/artists that I do like but I'm also finding I like more of the good 'ol time chicken-pickin' country like Waylon Jennings, Merle Haggard, James Burton, and a few others. Recently it's been Brad Paisley catching my ear. The other night he and John Mayer were on CMT Crossroads. It was pretty cool to see. Man, can Brad play. Every time I watch live performances of his it gives me Tele G.A.S.
He's more traditional country but I like how he does it. No wonder he's the youngest to ever become a member of the Grand Ole Opry.
Uh oh, for a rocker, I think I'm getting to know too much about country... :laugh2:
theodie said:
Yup. Some of the country now isn't really country at all. The only thing making some of the stuff country is that it came out of Nashville.
It's funny, as a teenager I couldn't stand a lot of country. I got in to it more with Garth Brooks yet I always admired Alabama. Then, I meet my wife 8 years ago and we end up expanding each others' musical tastes. Now, there's several country bands/artists that I do like but I'm also finding I like more of the good 'ol time chicken-pickin' country like Waylon Jennings, Merle Haggard, James Burton, and a few others. Recently it's been Brad Paisley catching my ear. The other night he and John Mayer were on CMT Crossroads. It was pretty cool to see. Man, can Brad play. Every time I watch live performances of his it gives me Tele G.A.S.
He's more traditional country but I like how he does it. No wonder he's the youngest to ever become a member of the Grand Ole Opry.Uh oh, for a rocker, I think I'm getting to know too much about country... :laugh2:
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Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?
Even here he's not original, or even what you claim. He was putting out these huge walls of sound with his guitar -- nothing wrong with that, that's what makes a power trio so cool. But that's not minimalism.
Andy Summers in his Police days was a supreme minimalist. He was always doing very subtle things with the tone and texture, taking so few solos that Cobain looked like Vai by comparison, and coming up with chord voicings that you rarely if ever heard on a guitar. He was so subtle that he was like the ref at a basketball game -- you don't notice them 'til they either screw up or they're not there. Then suddenly you notice how important they are.
I've never heard of Glenn Branca so I can't comment on him. The mere fact that he uses 100 guitars in a symphonic arrangment doesn't make him revolutionary or brilliant -- it's what he DOES with the 100 guitars that would determine whether his idea was revolutionary or brilliant. It's like a baseball player who claims that because he hits the ball with the other end of the bat, he is a genius and a revolutionary. Not if his batting avg is .034...
big_black said:
Even here he's not original, or even what you claim. He was putting out these huge walls of sound with his guitar -- nothing wrong with that, that's what makes a power trio so cool. But that's not minimalism.
Andy Summers in his Police days was a supreme minimalist. He was always doing very subtle things with the tone and texture, taking so few solos that Cobain looked like Vai by comparison, and coming up with chord voicings that you rarely if ever heard on a guitar. He was so subtle that he was like the ref at a basketball game -- you don't notice them 'til they either screw up or they're not there. Then suddenly you notice how important they are.
big_black said:
I've never heard of Glenn Branca so I can't comment on him. The mere fact that he uses 100 guitars in a symphonic arrangment doesn't make him revolutionary or brilliant -- it's what he DOES with the 100 guitars that would determine whether his idea was revolutionary or brilliant. It's like a baseball player who claims that because he hits the ball with the other end of the bat, he is a genius and a revolutionary. Not if his batting avg is .034...
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Is Rock Guitar Dead?
That's funny...reminds of the Frank Zappa quote.
Naw...rock guitar isn't dead, it just smells funny.
However, I would add one great guitarist who came along after EVH and had a tremendous influence and an influence far greater than Slash (for crying out loud...):
Stevie Ray Vaughn.
flank said:
That's funny...reminds of the Frank Zappa quote.
Naw...rock guitar isn't dead, it just smells funny.
However, I would add one great guitarist who came along after EVH and had a tremendous influence and an influence far greater than Slash (for crying out loud...):
Stevie Ray Vaughn.
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