I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

Interesting thread, sorry to hear about your misfortunes, tc. I think we should start www.savegibson.com!!
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

There's a certain level fo expectation that one should have with a guitar that's the pricepoint of what Gibson is asking for them.

What I find stunning is how really bad some of the bad ones are.

Anyone can make a terrible guitar. Anyone can make a mistake, that's why there's QC. And bad QC can happen to any company when tehy're busy doing other things. You fire that one guy who was vigilante about his job for whatever reason and you're suddenly putting frets on firewood.

But what stuns me is how obvious the QC issues are; it's like the lights went out for a day and due to low light they didn't see the Sharpie mark.

With that said Gibson is capable of making some amazing instruments. If I had to buy one today I'd probably go either with a Historic which the QC seems to be better on, or with a used Studio that's already been broken in and had the "flaws" worked ut of it.
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

Also, I think gibson really dropped the ball putting the epi elitists into the well...epiphone line. They are EXCELLENT instruments.
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

callous_frigid_chill said:
Also, I think gibson really dropped the ball putting the epi elitists into the well...epiphone line. They are EXCELLENT instruments.

Have you ever played one? I'd really like to, but haven't found anyone who carries them. I'd be willing to pay that much for an Epiphone if it was worth it.
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

^Heck yes, they are definetely worth it. I don't like the headstock as much as a Gibson's, but that is just a minor detail.
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

LesStrat said:
...the 12 year old Korean kid who assembled it did a flawless job.


:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

RiffGuy said:
Have you ever played one? I'd really like to, but haven't found anyone who carries them. I'd be willing to pay that much for an Epiphone if it was worth it.

whats the odds the epiphone elitist series is marked for discontinuation?

think about the japanese fenders and JV squiers, i think the same thing is about to happen :saeek:

tom
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

LesStrat said:
I have an ESP LTD B304 bass...the 12 year old Korean kid who assembled it did a flawless job. ... IF a 12 year old Chinese kid can assemble a Squier Strat without finish flaws, what's stopping the Gibson factory?


???


TC, sorry to hear that. It's great to hear that you have a good dealer. Maybe it's just time to try some other brands?
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

I am not defending shoddy manufacturing at all. No excuse not to put forth your best effort every day you go to work. But the reality is, we all have bad days it seems. I think they used to have two piles. The best ones used to go to the small indy dealers (the ones that are picky and will send back the duds) and then there's the ones that used to be considered "2nd's" and I think those now go to MF/AMS/GC/SamAsh etc.

Notice on the used market you used to see guitars marked as 2nd. Now you never see them any longer. I think this is the heart of hte issue. THe peckerhead that runs Gibson is selling his 2nds as regular merchandise.

This is another reason to cut out the small Indy dealers. They cater to anal guys like us. We all know what to look for and won't accept 2nd best. I imagine those Indy dealers sent back enough stock that Gibson probably had to start spending more and more time checking their orders. Too much time spent on a very small minority of all their stuff that they sell.

They are either poised to be sold or they are up to something else. I'm the last consipiracy theorist on this earth. I think all that stuff people come up with is highly entertaining. But there is no doubt in my mind that Gibson is setting themselves up for a major move of some sort. They've stopped or decreased production on certain guitars, they are consolidating their lines of distribution, they are decreasing their number of dealers. Too many things going on that add up to a major change of some sort. They guy that runs the place is a major peckerhead apparently, but he's probably a pretty smart guy, one that just doesn't care about the 1/2 of 1 percent of his customers that expect the best.

How many people go out and buy Gibson pickups to put in their Epiphones? TONS of them. We are such a minority when it comes to the overall massive guitar market. Take 100 guitarists and show them a guitar with a poorly cut nut and ask them to find the one flaw on this guitar. 90 or more of them wouldn't be able to find it.

I think it's damn sad how the smaller dealers are getting squeezed. I wish I was running the show.

Gibson cranks out a ton of guitars. THey're percentage of crappy ones is probably the same percentage that Hamer and Heritage, et. al. have. It's just that Heritage only makes 1/100th of the number of guitars that Gibson makes (probably less than that). So, if they crank out 2% of their guitars with issues, they get handled at the dealer level (hopefully) and we don't see too many of them. My 535 Heritage arrived with sawdust in the case. It just kept showing up each time I'd open the damn thing. I think it was actually from the case itself, not the guitar, but I digress.

if Gibson cranks out that arbitrary 2% of duds, that translates to a huge number of guitars. I truly believe that is what you are seeing.

Now when it comes to tone, there just aren't that many guitars that can give me the Les Paul tone. I've tried a lot of them, but when it comes to feel and tone, give me one of my Les Pauls any day. How many American Strats have you played with issues? I've played a bunch. Fender cranks out their share of duds as well. It's the nature of the beast.

Just my two cents, and I'm as anal as the rest of you guys. But with a little search and patience, you can find a great one.
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

the only problem with searching so much is that the dealer list for gibson is getting much smaller while it seems fenders is getting bigger. it is just harder to find the right guitar in a shop when it comes to gibson. I am doing the same thing with an amp. I found a killer amp that i would like to get but they wanted too much for it and now i am looking for a used one online.

TC, Good luck. I hope things work out for you
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

IMO, with a big name like Gibson you have a responsibility to your customers and your reptutation to put out only the best.
Yes its true that some people buy Gibsons just for the name and reputation alone and that is not a bad thing. I consider Gibsons (Les Pauls) the "holy grail of guitars" and I'm sure others do too. Because of this, you should be able to buy a Gibson, sight unseen, without any flaws. And, it may be true that someone may not be able to see a minor flaw in the nut or whatever, but that shouldn't even happen on a $2000+ guitar made by what some consider to be the best guitar company in the world.

And Gibson raised their prices this year by 10%. None of that is going into better QC, or customer service etc. A new Les Paul Standard retails for $2200 now. Thats riduclous. Even more reason each specimen should be flawless. PRS can do it. Fender is doing it. Even low budget ESP's made overseas are close to flawless.

:thumbsdow
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. If you're not happy, they should do the right thing by you. Gibson is really going down fast in terms of quality, but there's no sign of lowering prices on the horizon :yell:

Good luck,

Jeff
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

Todays Gibsons are way overpriced , and the quality seems to keep going downhill, and the company is run by a rich ...hole. This is one of the reasons I now play Fender guitars.
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

Your frustrations have caused me to change my decision. I was going to buy a new Gibby, but now I am going to pick up a 97 that has a few dings, but at least I know what I'm getting and won't be afraid to play it out and change pickups and such. I was struggling with the decision and now you've made it for me, thanks.
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

New Gibsons are no worse than used Gibsons. You have to play the one you want before buying though.
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

It wasn't three years ago, I bought a new 2001 or 2002 Goldtop Standard for $1300 from Guitar Trader. How's that for some serious price increases?

This might also be a sign of declining sales. I used to work for a drug company a long long time ago. They'd just increase prices on drugs that had declining sales, therefore showing an increased profit across the board. They did it about every year I worked there.

Sounds like Gibson is doing the same thing.

By the way, when you can buy a new 2004 Reissue Goldtop (56 or 57 for 2K or 2,050, why would you pay 2200 for a new Standard? I don't get it. If we're talking MF prices, then that's inflated. Way inflated. That's probably why the smaller dealers are getting squeezed. MF/GC probably complained about getting undercut on pricing ALL THE TIME!

IF any of you are thinking I'm defending Gibson in the slightest, I am not. I am plenty pissed at them. I do not believe I will ever buy another new one unless it's a 2004 NOS or earlier. Now that they are squeezing Wildwood, Dave's, Music Machine and the like, and I vow to only buy new Gibsons from these indy dealers, it's highly unlikely you'll ever see me own a 2005 on up. That is a big "unless" they recend their new policies that are squeezing my friends. Time will tell.

Looks like I'll continue to look for good deals on used ones.

That all being said, the 2004 R7 I have has better overall quality than my 98 R6 or the 2002 R8. Overall better quality hands down.
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

callous_frigid_chill said:
New Gibsons are no worse than used Gibsons. You have to play the one you want before buying though.


Y ou have the luxury of being a few hours drive away from Wildwoods. I probably wouldn't have bought my last one if I hadn't had the opportunity to go there in person and try them all out and check em over really well.
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

Scott_F said:
How many American Strats have you played with issues? I've played a bunch. Fender cranks out their share of duds as well. It's the nature of the beast.

I think a major sticking point here is the fact that a Gibson can cost 1.5-3 times an American Fender. While $900 is a lot of money, $2500 is a ton more, and I would expect to get what I paid for it - a guitar worth the extra $1600.
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

Tom M said:
I think a major sticking point here is the fact that a Gibson can cost 1.5-3 times an American Fender. While $900 is a lot of money, $2500 is a ton more, and I would expect to get what I paid for it - a guitar worth the extra $1600.


I definitely can't argue with your logic at all. I've often wondered if the set neck and the nitro and the maple tops justify the 3x price tag. At least until I plug one in. :)
 
Re: I've always defended Gibson QC, now I got burned - Twice

Callous, it's not that the old one's are any better than the new one's, it's that I don't want to give any of my $$ to the company now! THere is a shop here in town and they have some very nice Gibby's on the wall, but you can plainly see the "wrinkled paint" I call it on the body next to the neck on probably almost half of the guitars. It's nuts.
 
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