Looking to upgrade 57/57 classic plus combo

B

Big_Mike

New member
I have an all-mahogany, non-chambered Les Paul with a Gibson 57 classic neck, and a Gibson 57 classic plus bridge. I like the bridge tone, but the neck tone has never been to my liking. I even swapped out the magnet in the neck for an Alnico V, and while that helped, it still is not exactly where I want it to be.

My biggest complaint is that even with the magnet change, the top end (E and B strings) seem rounded. I cannot get a good "bite" for overdriven sounds. I have played with pickup height adjustments, but just cannot get there. The clean sounds are fine, just the sound when turned up is not as nice as I want. Basically, I want better note articulation and separation. It is too round and creamy.

Here is what I want - something that is not "wooly" in this mahogany Les Paul, something not too dark, and I want some bite on the top end for the neck. I am thinking maybe a seymour duncan pickup would do the trick, or if there are other boutique winders that anyone wants to recommend, I am all ears. What would you recommend?
 
Re: Looking to upgrade 57/57 classic plus combo

Also, I should add, I am mostly a classic rock player, I like Bryan Adams-type lead sounds.
 
Re: Looking to upgrade 57/57 classic plus combo

Big_Mike said:
I have an all-mahogany, non-chambered Les Paul with a Gibson 57 classic neck, and a Gibson 57 classic plus bridge. I like the bridge tone, but the neck tone has never been to my liking. I even swapped out the magnet in the neck for an Alnico V, and while that helped, it still is not exactly where I want it to be.

My biggest complaint is that even with the magnet change, the top end (E and B strings) seem rounded. I cannot get a good "bite" for overdriven sounds. I have played with pickup height adjustments, but just cannot get there. The clean sounds are fine, just the sound when turned up is not as nice as I want. Basically, I want better note articulation and separation. It is too round and creamy.
Click to expand...

My exact same complaint with '57's! I've had a couple pair, tried mag swaps, and still couldn't get the high-end and clarity I wanted; finally sold them. I think they're overrated and put in too many models of Gibson guitars. Likewise I'm not thrilled with Pearly Gates, as the neck has a smooth, rounded high-end (too mellow for me) and the bridge is fairly bright and thin. Not well-balanced. For me, they didn't live up to the hype. From what I've seen, most (but not all) of the guys who rave about '57's and PG's have a small field of reference, and have owned few, if any, other PAF's.

I much prefer Seth Lovers. They have more treble and clarity in the neck. The bridge is full, and still has a sharp high-end. Being unpotted gives them a more open, 3D sound, and feedback is rarely an issue. Seth's are the favorite PU of some of the Duncan employees here. This is a PU to get excited about.

The other Duncan PAF types:
- '59's are good in the bridge slot, but in the neck of LP's can be bassy/boomy. Loads of low-end.
- A2P's are very good. The neck has more high-end than a PGN, and the bridge is fuller than a PGB. Well-balanced set.
- Antiquities have aged magnets. A2's don't have a lot of treble and output when they're fully-charged, and degaussing them reduces it even more. Very rounded high-end in the bridge and neck both.

Other PAF's:
- Burstbuckers (not BBP's) are Gibson's best PAF these days, especially 1 and 2. The unbalanced coils give them more high-end than '57's.
- Fralins have a lot of definition and note separation. Excellent tones.
- Parsons Street (from StewMac) are very good PAF's, great vintage specs, and you can get a pair for a little over $100. I have a set of the A2 version, and like them much better than '57's or PG's. Clear and open-sounding.
 
Re: Looking to upgrade 57/57 classic plus combo

jimlp said:
Pearly Gates neck should do the trick.
Click to expand...

In my LP's, PGN's have just as rounded a high-end as '57's. Both are pretty warm in the neck slot (at least in LP's), and not the direction this guy wants to go.
 
Re: Looking to upgrade 57/57 classic plus combo

blueman335 said:
My exact same complaint with '57's! I've had a couple pair, tried mag swaps, and still couldn't get the high-end and clarity I wanted; finally sold them. I think they're overrated and put in too many models of Gibson guitars. Likewise I'm not thrilled with Pearly Gates, as the neck has a smooth, rounded high-end (too mellow for me) and the bridge is fairly bright and thin. Not well-balanced. For me, they didn't live up to the hype. From what I've seen, most (but not all) of the guys who rave about '57's and PG's have a small field of reference, and have owned few, if any, other PAF's.

I much prefer Seth Lovers. They have more treble and clarity in the neck. The bridge is full, and still has a sharp high-end. Being unpotted gives them a more open, 3D sound, and feedback is rarely an issue. Seth's are the favorite PU of some of the Duncan employees here. This is a PU to get excited about.

The other Duncan PAF types:
- '59's are good in the bridge slot, but in the neck of LP's can be bassy/boomy. Loads of low-end.
- A2P's are very good. The neck has more high-end than a PGN, and the bridge is fuller than a PGB. Well-balanced set.
- Antiquities have aged magnets. A2's don't have a lot of treble and output when they're fully-charged, and degaussing them reduces it even more. Very rounded high-end in the bridge and neck both.

Other PAF's:
- Burstbuckers (not BBP's) are Gibson's best PAF these days, especially 1 and 2. The unbalanced coils give them more high-end than '57's.
- Fralins have a lot of definition and note separation. Excellent tones.
- Parsons Street (from StewMac) are very good PAF's, great vintage specs, and you can get a pair for a little over $100. I have a set of the A2 version, and like them much better than '57's or PG's. Clear and open-sounding.
Click to expand...


Question - as this is a Mahogany Les Paul, should I be looking at Alnico 5 humbuckers? For example, the Parsons Street ones you mention come in either the A2 or A5 variety. I am thinking maybe an A5 for the neck and an A2 for the bridge?

Also, the Seth Lovers are A2 from what I can tell - will that be dark in a mahogany body? I'm just wondering if I need to stay away from A2's.
 
Re: Looking to upgrade 57/57 classic plus combo

Big_Mike said:
Question - as this is a Mahogany Les Paul, should I be looking at Alnico 5 humbuckers? For example, the Parsons Street ones you mention come in either the A2 or A5 variety. I am thinking maybe an A5 for the neck and an A2 for the bridge?

Also, the Seth Lovers are A2 from what I can tell - will that be dark in a mahogany body? I'm just wondering if I need to stay away from A2's.
Click to expand...

No, you don't need to avoid A2's if they're in a PU that's wound right, like Seth's and A2P's ('57's are wound too hot for A2's, hence the rounded high-end). The problem with some A5 HB's is that they have a lot of bass and can be boomy in the neck slot of an LP, especially an all-mahogany one.

Parson's Street have two things that increase high-end: unbalanced coils, which add treble (part HB, part single coil), and the neck is underwound (7.5K), which is great; it will have the benefits of an A2's rich texture and dynamics, and still not have a dull high-end.
 
Re: Looking to upgrade 57/57 classic plus combo

Have you tried lowering the pickup and the raising the pole-piece screws above the cover?

Bill
 
Re: Looking to upgrade 57/57 classic plus combo

My first thought for the neck slot of either an Alnico II Pro or a Jazz and since you are open to magnet swapping keep in mind that the Alnico II Pro and Jazz use the same coils just different magnets (Alnico II and Alnico V).

I'd start there and see where I landed for the neck...on the issue of the bridge maybe start with Pearly Gates or even a 59.
 
Re: Looking to upgrade 57/57 classic plus combo

From Duncan the Seth Lovers are probably the only ones I'd recommend as a set. The others will have certain issues which you'd need to address with magnet swaps and the like.

I'd also say that the RD-59's from Electric City Pickups would be worth a look too. Great clarity, and two wind strengths to choose from.
 
Re: Looking to upgrade 57/57 classic plus combo

blueman335 said:
No, you don't need to avoid A2's if they're in a PU that's wound right, like Seth's and A2P's ('57's are wound too hot for A2's, hence the rounded high-end). The problem with some A5 HB's is that they have a lot of bass and can be boomy in the neck slot of an LP, especially an all-mahogany one.

Parson's Street have two things that increase high-end: unbalanced coils, which add treble (part HB, part single coil), and the neck is underwound (7.5K), which is great; it will have the benefits of an A2's rich texture and dynamics, and still not have a dull high-end.
Click to expand...


Thanks for everyone's input. The pots are already 500K, but I might upgrade it to 50's wiring.

Sounds like the Seth Lovers or the Slash set might be the right choice here. Parson's Street is interesting as they are much less expensive.
 
Re: Looking to upgrade 57/57 classic plus combo

If you want more bite and clarity, have you even considered a P-90? The Mean 90 by GFS is a great P-90 in a humbucker sized case that would drop right into your guitar. They are very good pups (well-liked by many forum members here, including myself). And since P-90's use two magnets, you have many options for tailoring their tone.
 
Re: Looking to upgrade 57/57 classic plus combo

GuitarDoc said:
If you want more bite and clarity, have you even considered a P-90? The Mean 90 by GFS is a great P-90 in a humbucker sized case that would drop right into your guitar. They are very good pups (well-liked by many forum members here, including myself). And since P-90's use two magnets, you have many options for tailoring their tone.
Click to expand...

It is always difficult to figure out what will sound best without hearing it in your guitar. I guess I'll just have to try a bunch of different pickups out. The Seth Lovers are intriguing, but expensive.
 
Re: Looking to upgrade 57/57 classic plus combo

Christopher Caruana said:
In no order

1. Slash Set
2. BB 1 and 2 (for vintage)
3. BB 2 and 3 (for hotter vintage)
Click to expand...


Thanks for the recommendations. I like the Slash set, but I'm concerned about versatility. The BB1 and BB2 combo sound really nice on some Youtube videos. They seem to have a nice bite to them on the neck pickup.
 
Re: Looking to upgrade 57/57 classic plus combo

Big_Mike said:
Thanks for the recommendations. I like the Slash set, but I'm concerned about versatility. The BB1 and BB2 combo sound really nice on some Youtube videos. They seem to have a nice bite to them on the neck pickup.
Click to expand...

Don't be afraid to mix and match too. You could do slash bridge and bb1 neck or something like that
 
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