Modeling amp technology still lagging

Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

I wouldn't write it off as useful, but as a stand alone preamp?

I just haven't heard anything natural out of it for mid gain and high gain tones....solid state and digital have done good clean tones for years....that doesn't impress me.

If it doesn't come across well in clips (amateur to pro level), do you think I want to stand in front of it and say, this is awesome but sounds like crap when recorded!...I can't even imagine that happening.

I think it is a stellar effects unit, but it is flavor of the month for a pre-amp.

I've heard some very good mid gain clips, although I can't remember where I heard them in the first place. As for good hi gain clips, just listen to our own Bulb, and I think I recall VK having some nice ones when he had his AxeFX. I have heard some other good examples of gnarly hi gain tones as well. Meshuggah (amongst others) is using the AxeFXs, etc..

Flavor of the month.. well, it's been a flavor for over three years, and it doesn't seem to stop too soon either...

I have never been hot on clips from the 'net unless the quality isn't compromised too much. I would never rely on youtube for instance.. I think you just need to try one out, amplified adequately..
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

Put those elements in a model package so I can mix-n-match. Not simply preamp models, but the more in-depth stuff like Germanium capacitors (with adjustable aging/leaking settings so you get that "just before it craps out" sound). Let me choose the tube models - 12AT7, 12AY7, or 12AX7, or all 3 if I want. Let me choose what power tube models are used, not just the poweramp model.

Peavey's Revalver software lets you do that.

if peavey had somehow incorporated revalver tones into an amp, I think they would have made a worthy contender.

I wish they had it in a pedal format, like the RP1000, Pod X3L, Tonelab ST, etc. Hell, I'd even take the Vypyr in a pedal format.
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

Peavey's Revalver software lets you do that.



I wish they had it in a pedal format, like the RP1000, Pod X3L, Tonelab ST, etc. Hell, I'd even take the Vypyr in a pedal format.

there are rack mount thingies that can process VSTs, and you could probably synch up with a midi pedal, but man after the purchase you wouldn't eat for the rest of your life.
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

there are rack mount thingies that can process VSTs, and you could probably synch up with a midi pedal, but man after the purchase you wouldn't eat for the rest of your life.

I have seen peoples using their laptops for the same purpose :)
It looks strange but some of them sounded really good.
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

I have seen peoples using their laptops for the same purpose :)
It looks strange but some of them sounded really good.

that'd be cool. always wondered if something would be lost in translation from the VST to an actual speaker played loudly as opposed to having the sound recorded.
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

there are rack mount thingies that can process VSTs, and you could probably synch up with a midi pedal, but man after the purchase you wouldn't eat for the rest of your life.

Yup, and I can build one for half the price. Those things are ridiculously priced, and are closed off proprietary systems, so you can't upgrade them yourself.

I'm thinking a Revalver pedal would probably be about $500 all told. And maybe a Vypyr pedal for $250. :D
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

I had a Line 6 Vetta II. It didn't necessarily sound bad but I had two huge problems with the amp.

1. Playing in a band, especially with another guitarist using a tube amp, left it sounding very thin, directional and bland. It didn't cut at all.
2. To get the amp models to go from sounding good or OK to very good or great required a level of tweaking that was just beyond me. The Vetta forums were full of comments about parametric EQ settings or adding this stomp box model in combination with that amp model and a zillion other 'digital' tricks that weren't based on anything we would realistically do with analog equipment. From what I know of the Axe, it's in the same ballpark as far as tweaking goes.

I like modelers as practice amps or for stictly home use only. I have a little Vox ADVT amp at the shore house and I'll use a Line 6 PodXt Live with headphones for late night noodling.
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

I agree that the blue grill Valvetronix amps were amongst the best modelers out there.
My AD60VTH head is a very early one....number 68.

Here's what I don't understand about Vox....a company that normally does everything right. They had every opportunity to improve on the blue grill models, yet they went the opposite direction.....simplifying them, making them cheaper, and trying to sell a lot more of them. That's fine for a lower line, but they skipped out on a premium Valvetronix line. I fully expected them to come out with the Valvetronix II or something. It would have been nice to see $700-$800 amps that have the features of a Vetta, but the Vox's feel and tone.
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

I still use my Roland VG88 for songwriting demos. It sounds perfect for that application and, if you have a GK pickup, you have access to a bewildering array of other sounds -- acoustic, mandolins, and mythical guitar builds with things like pickups below frets, etc.

It doesn't come close to a good valve amp, even through a power amp and played into a cab. But it solves a lot of issues when it comes to late night writing or even for tracking a DI part that will be Reamped later.
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

Hmmm, you guys have inspired me to turn on my Zoom GFX 8 unit and give it a whirl. Forgot how fun it was (and can get some killer tones, but the 'time spent dialing in killer tone vs. time playing with killer tone' is beyond stupidly disproportional).
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

I agree that the blue grill Valvetronix amps were amongst the best modelers out there.
My AD60VTH head is a very early one....number 68.

Here's what I don't understand about Vox....a company that normally does everything right. They had every opportunity to improve on the blue grill models, yet they went the opposite direction.....simplifying them, making them cheaper, and trying to sell a lot more of them. That's fine for a lower line, but they skipped out on a premium Valvetronix line. I fully expected them to come out with the Valvetronix II or something. It would have been nice to see $700-$800 amps that have the features of a Vetta, but the Vox's feel and tone.

I totally agree. Korg should really take a long look in the mirror and ask themselves why they haven't pursued this technology further instead of just trying to make a buck off it. I'm not against making a dollar mind you, but I just want to see something new and better than the blue grill amps. Those amps are truly excellent and if Korg/Vox would just bother to put out something just like the blue grill models but with a better overall EQ (so the amp models sound exactly right instead of very close) with the same built-in feel, I think we would have a real winner on our hands.

I think they feel that the blue grill models crapped out in sales (really the price point was way too high initially) and they just didn't have the right marketing to take advantage. If they had gone in with a lower price point the blue grill amps would have dominated. Noone wanted to take a chance on an unproven technology for that kind of price. $1200 will buy you one heck of a great tube head that is proven to sound great. $700 would have been a very different story. If they put in an effort to really nail it down and make everything perfect, I think the blue grill amp technology would dominate the market right now.
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

I fully expected them to come out with the Valvetronix II or something. It would have been nice to see $700-$800 amps that have the features of a Vetta, but the Vox's feel and tone.


At the time they re-vamped the AD series (silver grille) into the VT series a couple years back, VOX was advertising a "vetta-esque" SUPER modeller combo on its website and even saw them for sale (but not in stock) in a few online catalogs. It never got produced- IIRC it was priced around $1400 street- which is def competition for it's tube amp line-that or maybe they've done enough market research to realize most people buying modellers are beginners and/or are not willing to pay more than a few hundred dollars for them. I don't think Line6 is doing so hot with Vettas, Flextones, or even the Spider Valves these days.

I know that for my sitch (home playing mostly, occasional jam out with friends/co workers), it (the Vox VT) is my best option, but for $1400- I'll buy a Rivera Venus 3 or a DR. Z Monza over a modeller without batting an eyelash. I can run my Distortron in the fornt and get a killer low volume tone for home play.
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

I used to be appalled by the thought of modeling, but I've slowly come 'round to thinking that it's a valid tool for having a lot of different amp tones on tap.

Vox has a lot going on. It was a blue-grille Valvetronix combo I was playing in the store when I decided that my SL2HT was a panty-dropper. JCM800 model, and that's the same model I use most of the time on my ToneLab. It sounds better than the preamp distortion in my TSL1000 -- sometimes. Tubes are cool, and the fact that the ToneLab has a tiny little miniature tube inside is kind of neat. What's even neater is connecting to the unit with MIDI to save and edit patches en masse.

Lately I've been using the Line6 PocketPOD and that little TonePortGX that runs only with modeling software on a computer. Both are head-and-shoulders better than the early PODs that I'd tried out in stores; I think Line6 have really turned a corner. There's something to be said for doing it all digital, because you can add models and effects, which isn't possible at all with my first-generation Vox ToneLab.

Then there's the Behringer GMX212. If you're going to have a crappy Chinese practice amp, why not have a crappy Chinese practice amp with different amp models of the Holy Trinity of Fender/Marshall/Mesa, ripped off directly from Tech21? For $179 or whatever I paid in the second-hand store, this thing knocked my socks off. (I know, sometimes my hosiery seems too easily removed, but bear with me.) It can't gig, at all; it just can't play very loud, but if you keep it at bedroom volumes, it's actually pretty amazing. All analog modeling, with some crappy digital effects tossed in, two twelves, and it keeps me from feeling like I need to have four different practice amps.

Forgot the headphones: All of my Chinese modeling products KILL with headphones. $20 Audio-Technica headphones.
 
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Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

For me, i couldn't do without modeller because you can play them quietly or with headphones.

Sure, i LOVE the sound of a tube amp... but how the hell do you guys ever crank them up without the neighbours complaining?

Some of us installed very good post phase inverter master volumes on our favorite non master volume amps. If done right, you can get very quiet and still have killer tone.
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

I embrace moddeling technology!
It's the digital revolution that takes everything to a higher standard.
It's practical, it's relatively inexpensive when compared to real tube amps, it's fairly easy to use and it sounds a whole lot better than Solid State amps. Best part is that you can just use headphones when the situation asks for it and still sound good! Ever plugged in headphones in a SS amp? Then you can hear how bad it sounds even better! Nobody can crank up tube amps all the time to get 'real deal' tones! Shure we all want that but the reality is that we also need something practical and easy to plug in when you feel like playing guitar instantly at a time or place we can't crank it. No warming up either, just instant tone. No more 'boxy sounding' distortion pedals needed.

I wish it had existed when I was young and started playing guitar!
Let me tell you a little story:

I got my first amp when I was 19 i think. I wanted a tube amp because I already knew those were the amps you'd want when you play guitar. Most amps everyone had back then were valvestate's and bandid's. I thought they sounded like $hite, thin and buzzy. Sterile. Nothing like the music I grew up with: Queen, Toto, Metallica etc. all bands that use huge tube rigs.
So I got a Randall 2x12 combo and a metal zone so I could have the supposed good cleans of the Randall and the 'fat' distortion of the metal zone. I thought it was a cool black box anyway. It never gave me the tone I was looking for but it was the closest thing that was affordable trying to sound huge like those bands already mentioned. Tube amps were simply too expensive.
I wish they had Line 6 spiders back then. I think they sound pretty good considering the price you pay for them. Same price range as the bandids, the valvestate's,high & knetter's or whatever ss crap that is in practise spaces you rent with bands for 30 bucks 3-4 hours to sound like $hite!
How many good bands ended up sounding bad like that? How many people got put off from music because of the hassle? How many people listening would walk away because of the high pitched sounds or dull muffled sounds inherent to these kind of amps? How many girls did you not impress becasue of that! :D (remember: pretty girls have pretty ears!)
I wish they had moddeling amps back then so I never got around buying a good expensive tube amp, so I never got around buying a car that would fit a 4x12, so I never got around buying SD pickups to sound even better, so I never got addicted to the 'real deal' hauling around tons of equipment and piss of band members who have to carry around your stuff lol. :D (Let the bass player carry your guitars and push your amp and cab around on a skateboard lol) So I never got into this forum, learning a ton about music and equipment.

Kids today have much more to choose from and sound better too (even if they dont have the chops) because moddeling amps really sound better than their obsolete counterparts.

I see no reason getting a higher end expensive tube moddeler that costs as much as a good tube amp. When you get serious about this stuff, and are willing to pay a lot of money for sweet equipment, why not get the real deal and find a good place to crank it up? No, the lower grade models are fine for the money sounding half decent, just make shure your guitar is properly set up and rock on!

Try this: Yamaha Audiogram with cubase included and amplitube or guitar rig. Get a good cabinet emulator software (can be downloaded for free legally) and try to beat that for a home recording set-up! Of course you need to have a good pc so the driver won't lagg you but who hasn't one already. you can sound huge these days without spending a lot of money! And you can sound good though your own stereo and speakers!
This new generation of modeling software IS the $hit!
I embrace the digital revolution.
 
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Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

Anyone tried that cool Ipod amp thingy? Only 30 bucks and you can connect it to your stereo or headphones. Your Ipod will work as a moddeling amp!
That's even better than the cigarette box amp! And probably sounds a lot better too.
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

Modeling amps like the blueface, or even the new VT Vox models, are good for getting a feel for what gear you may like. The amp models are not perfect representations of their tube couterparts, but they are close enough for me to know I like the JCM800 better than the JCM900, although the only real Marshall tube amps I've had are the JCM2000 models.

I would probably never have guessed that one of my favorite amps would be a VoxAC15 if I hadn't heard it modeled on my valvetronix amps. I also got to play with a lot of effects, and see which i did, and did not, use. I also listened to types of music I probably would never have stumbled upon because I wanted to know who used each amp model, and what type of music they were playing with it.

Having only one tube amp and a couple of stomp boxes is great I guess, but its also very limiting as far as the tonal experience you have. Modeling technology gives you a taste for a lot of different flavors, and if you find some you like, you can save up and buy the real thing.
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging

For me, i couldn't do without modeller because you can play them quietly or with headphones.

Sure, i LOVE the sound of a tube amp... but how the hell do you guys ever crank them up without the neighbours complaining?

I crank it just loud enough to NOT hear them
 
Re: Modeling amp technology still lagging



would love to try it


 
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