More Tweed Stuff

[Gunny47]

I almost closed the deal with my decision of the Fender '57 Twin, but I read this review of a Victoria Bandmaster and it gave me big time gas for a Victoria. I like the sound of the Twins because of the speaker config and the dual rectifiers over the Bassman. I love how the Twins can get real creamy (sounded a little wrong) and not too nasty and farty like some Bassmans tend to get.

Anyway, Im determining between the Victoria 50212 and the Fender '57 Twin once again and I just want to ask which one is truely a better amp. Im going to retube both of those suckers with NOS tubes, RCAs, but probably put some Tung Sol Reissues in the power spots instead of NOS Tung Sols because those ****s are expensive. And I would put the Weber speakers that are in the Fender in the Victoria (which would make up for the price difference between them) because I love those things. After a gig or two with that amp, the amp will sound beautiful! After those modifications (speakers and tubes in the Victoria, tubes in the Fender), which is a BETTER amp? Meaning, which one has the better transformer, caps, and other components (Im not too familiar with this stuff). Also, if I go for the Victoria, which speakers would I buy, the 2 25 watt webers or the 2 50 watt webers? Which ones come with the Fender? Thanks a lot.

 

[Curly]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

a friend and I A/B ed the Fender with the Victoria Twin, and he bought the Victoria.

However, he later got a Clark Bassman model (whatever it's called), and that's become his preferred amp. So, you might check into Clark Amplification. According to my friend, the build quality is second to none.

between the Fender and Victoria, the transformers on the Fender are Mercury Magnetics, which are among the best. I'm not sure who victoria uses, but they are of similar quality.

you might want to email Weber regarding speakers, but the 2 50 watt speakers would work better in that amp, since it's probably rated over 50 watts.

BTW, if a Bassman is sounding "farty", I'd say that something is likely wrong with the setup --- although it's a tweed circuit that overdrives sooner than later amps, it's still close to 50 watts, so it's powerful enough for most venues.

 

[Gunny47]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

Yea dude. I looked at a bunch of amp companies including fullertone, victoria, fender and clark also. Something happened with Clark. Half their amps (including their Twins, Bassmans and Bandmasters) are now custom order only. Also, I guess they "lost their rights" or something to weber speakers. Their amps used to come stock with the weber alnico tweed era clones which sound amazing to my ears but now they come with eminences.

And as sound-wise concerns, how does the bandmaster rate against the bassman? I never played a bandmaster.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

Due to the slightly less power of a Bandmaster and the 3x10 set up (which causes a slight impedence mismatch) the Bandmaster breaks up a little sooner than a Bassman.

Im gonnatell you this...you have really been on the low power Twin thing for a while and that's the amp you shoudl get as for the Fender vs Vicky question I know that the Fender is nice but Victorias are keeper amps forever...I think those are great amps and if the price is gonna be the same or real close it's a no brainer IMO...

 

[Curly]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

Something happened with Clark. Half their amps (including their Twins, Bassmans and Bandmasters) are now custom order only. Also, I guess they "lost their rights" or something to weber speakers. Their amps used to come stock with the weber alnico tweed era clones which sound amazing to my ears but now they come with eminences.

Clark has used The Perfect Note for his only dealer for a while, so it's not so much that some amps are custom orders as that they are only available through his dealer ...

as for the Weber speaker issue, I don't quite understand that ... I noticed that he's not using the Weber on his Beaufort Special, but he still lists Weber speakers on his site

if you're at all interested, you might give Mike a call

these are all great amps we're talking about, so I think you'll be happy, especially if you can play a couple before buying ... maybe check The Gear Page and Ebay for used ones.

 

[Scott_F]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

I'm working up an interesting tweed for jeremy right now. He's going to build a 3 speaker tweed combo, but he's going to use two 10's and one 12. We're going to make it so he can run any single speaker, or any combination of two, or all three. He should be able to adjust his clean headroom darn near on the fly.

It ought to be pretty sweet when I get her up and going. I'll stack my parts up against any parts anyone else is using.

 

[Gunny47]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

Yes, definitely Im going with the Lo Po Twin, but I was just currious about the bandmaster. I just love the Tweed sound so much.

I actually looked over the price again. The Fender is $2100 and the Vicky is $2375. The difference in price is not that much compared to what I am getting. Victoria has been in this cloning complete historical accuracy for like 15 years and Fender just got into this clone is '03 or something. But Im still worried about speaker. I heard so many crap reviews of the reissue Jensens. But I really got to test the Victoria 50212 out. Ill look in some stores...

Thanks so much for your replies. I know JDM has a Fender Twin and I talked about it with him. Lets see what he has to say.

 

[Gunny47]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

BTW Curly, now ALL of his amps have Eminence Red Fangs or other eminences besides the Deluxe clone one with the Celestion Blue. Not one uses the weber. Despite hearing great things about the Red Fang, I dont know why you would use it in that amp if you were looking for dead-on authentic tweed tone. I went on The Perfect Note to see pictures of the amp and there was a picture of the Low Country (the Twin clone) and it made me even more psyched about a twin. Still not sure, gotta try one.

 

[Gunny47]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

Just came back from Guitar Center. I went to look at the Fender 57 Twin but they didnt have it. So I looked at the vintage stuff and saw a Wide Panel '54 Deluxe on the wall. I looked around, no one was looking, I pulled it down and started to play it. The thing was pretty damn cool! The tweed was not in the greatest shape, but it sounded pretty good. Very quiet. I had the thing dimed with the tone up (that added some gain and volume too) all the way. It did not have that much gain though. Gave a nice crunch though. One of the first vintage amps I played. It was $1800. I really liked it, but it was way too quiet for what I wanted. I want an amp that I can bring to band practice and go along with my friend's (bandmate's) 200 watt Marshall MG and a drummer. Plus, my dad would never let me get it because he doesnt want to blow it up and doesnt want to worry about "rusty electronics." He'll never learn. BTW, I was plugged in with a Custom Authentic '59 LP in a iced tea color with a brown back. The thing was awesome. Great worn-in neck and had the deepest flame I ever seen. Thats partly the reason why it was 6 grand!

So my dad was talking to the guy that sold me my Gibson amp and 1957 LP goldtop RI (who gave me a killer deal on the amp) and he was talking about reissues. I was over looking at some Mesa Boogies while my dad said, "Yea, he likes the old tweed fender amps, but I want him to get a remake or whatever you call them. But he doesnt like the Bassman. HEY NICK!! GET OVER HERE!" I walk over. "Tell him what amp you like." "Okay, its the Fender Twin, but the one that is tweed. Its a reissue from custom series amp." Stupid me, I did not tell him the year.

He goes over to the computer, "let me see how much they cost and if we got one in the back so u can see it." looks it up. He said the list was 1700 and it would cost me about 1200. WTF? How can that be? Earlier, he said it was the anniversery model. I had no clue, he was the store guy, so I figure he knows best even though I research this crap. I said, wow what a deal. We left.

It hit me a few minutes ago that he was talking about the Fender Twin REVERB reissue that is covered in blonde tolex. I guess he was way off. I knew that price was too good to be true. DAMNIT!!! I guess Im back to the Victoria...

 

[ES350]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

Victoria uses Mojotone as a transformer supplier---not quite a MM. Figure in the Fender warranty and availability of parts and service, the Weber P12Q style speakers, and the lower price...umm, I'd go Fender. BTW, if you have low end issues with a tweed, swap out the first cap from the stock 250 mikes to 25 or lower...I don't think you'll miss that 17 Hz it's trying to reproduce.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

Also, consider a Dr. Z. I'd recommend staying with 12" speakers, simply because they keep the lows nice and tight, without farting out. That's one problem I had with the Bassman LTD.....killer amp, I just can't deal with 10's.

Keep your eyes on Ebay too. Bargains always come up for Fender, Victoria, Holland, Blues Pearl, Kendrick, Clark, and other custom built amps. Sometimes you can save $700, simply by being an aggressive last minute sniper.

 

[Gunny47]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

I cant find any Kendrick stuff. I look on their site and they do not have any tweed clones. Maybe Im looking in the wrong spots. I look for all of those companies on eBay every day and currently there is nothing. I agree with you on the Bassman LTD. The overdrive was too nasty on that thing (one that I played in the store a few months ago. No smoothness at all and it had a shrill top end and farty bass end to me. I dont think it was the caps on it, I think just because it is a cheaper amp, not a top notch handwired amp or good clone. Dont get me wrong, the cleans on that thing were amazing, but still not as good as the Twin.

Ugh, now that evens the decision more, ES350, with the fact that the Fender has the Mercury Magnetics transformers and the Victoria doesn't. Im still gotta play both. Ill probably go with the Fender becasue I can probably get a killer deal on it on top of the lower prices with this guy I know at guitar center who I baught $3000 worth of gear from. And Im just obsessed with those Weber speakers!

BTW, everyone is talking about Mission amps. Do they make any Tweed clones? I seen one, but I think it was kit only. Thanks.

 

[Gunny47]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

Ah crap, more GAS attack for all you Fender Tweedsters. And for me especially!!!

http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/GearDetails.aspx?Item=866753

The thing was re-tweeded though, which decreases its value significantly. Still a damn load off the wallet if you buy that amp. Looks pretty cool.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

If the choice is gonna come down to either a Fender or a Victoria I'd go for the Vicky no questions...HOWEVER you mentioned Mission Amps...as you can seein my signatrure I am the VERY PROUD owner of a Mission Amps 5B4 V Front Super clone that is simply AMAZING! I was so impressed with the Super that I sent my Twin Reverb to Bruce at Mission Amps for a complete overhaul and a few choice tweaks.

Mission Amps is hands down some of the best amps comming or going made with the best parts money can buy and Bruce is a great guy and he does amazing work.

He offers a 5E3 kit on his site as well as the new 18 and 30 watt Aurora amps but he can and will build whatever kind of Tweed Fender you want!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

If the choice is gonna come down to either a Fender or a Victoria I'd go for the Vicky no questions...HOWEVER you mentioned Mission Amps...as you can seein my signatrure I am the VERY PROUD owner of a Mission Amps 5B4 V Front Super clone that is simply AMAZING! I was so impressed with the Super that I sent my Twin Reverb to Bruce at Mission Amps for a complete overhaul and a few choice tweaks.

Mission Amps is hands down some of the best amps comming or going made with the best parts money can buy and Bruce is a great guy and he does amazing work.

He offers a 5E3 kit on his site as well as the new 18 and 30 watt Aurora amps but he can and will build whatever kind of Tweed Fender you want!

Man...I'd go for a Mission Super clone like Christian's or the Mission Aurora. Either the 18 watt or 30 watt. The 18 watt Aurora totally blew away the Marshall 18 watt clone another dealer had brought to the Dallas Guitar Show to show off. The Mission just ate it alive!

It's one of the very finest amps I've ever played through.

http://www.missionamps.com

I owned a Victoria Bassman for about two weeks....didn't like it much at all. Thought it had a hard edgey tone with way to much bass.

Lew

 

[ES350]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

Agreed about the Vickys, Lew. I had the Twin and Bassman clones in the 90's for a short time and didn't care for them---not a slam, just not my thing. It seems like most of the boutique guys go one way or the other; crunchy, distorted tweed for the blues/rock guys (the Santa Ana Bandmaster and Super clones and a lot of the 5E3 makers come to mind) or extra clean and brittle with high plate voltages (the Vicky Twin). Nobody really seems to get the warmth that the real deal has...I do have one of Bruce's old Tweedie Pie kits and that sounds pretty good tho.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

Gunny, if you want the low power Twin call Bruce up and see what he can do for you...I will say for sure that you will end up with a killer amp, IMO Bruce does the best handmade Tweed amps hands down...I don't know of anybody that can touch his work!

 

[Gunny47]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

I just sent an email to Mission Amps about getting a Low Power Twin custom ordered. Here's what I put:

"Hello, I was recommeded by a few gear forum buddies to check out Mission amps. One of them purchased a custom order Tweed Super V-front clone from you. I am currently looking around for a Fender Tweed Low Power Twin clone or reissue. I played a few and loved them, but I want to see if I can get a better one. The reason I am contacting you is for a quote/"possibility check." Is it possible for you to build me an extremely historically accurate Low Power Narrow Panel Tweed Twin? I would like it with 2 8 ohm Weber 12A150A speakers (for a total 4 ohm amp) and have them in the normal arrangement of that amp. Like I said, as historically accurate as possible. Tubes, whatever is best for you. Cheaper current manufacture ones are fine, but I want it to be the same type of tubes (3 12AY7s, 1 12AX7, 2 5881s and 2 5U4Gs). I would also like a red indicator light and if possible, the Mission logo on the top of the narrow panel and not on the grill cloth, just like the originals. But, I would like an internal bias pot on the amp so I can make those adjustments. To sum it up, pretty much go for historical accuracy + internal bias pot. Transformers, I would like the a Murcury Magnetics one if possible. I am just wondering if you can make this amp for me and price. I am not ready to make any purchases yet. If I decide to buy this amp from you, and it is possible that you can make it, I will give you a more specific specifications list of what exactly I want to go into the amp (transformer model, tubes, etc). So for now, I would like a price quote and if this amp is even possible in the first place. Thank you very much for your time."

I tried to sound professional. I said that tubes did not matter because I did not want to burden him with finding the exact tubes that I want and ordering them and telling him to put them in etc etc. Im guessing that this amp is going to cost well over $2000, and if it goes into $3000, fugheddaboudit (or however the hell you spell that). But I seen that the Aurora 30 watt only costs about $1500. How much did your V-front Super cost, the guy who invented fire? Thanks.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

I just sent an email to Mission Amps about getting a Low Power Twin custom ordered. Here's what I put:

"Hello, I was recommeded by a few gear forum buddies to check out Mission amps. One of them purchased a custom order Tweed Super V-front clone from you. I am currently looking around for a Fender Tweed Low Power Twin clone or reissue. I played a few and loved them, but I want to see if I can get a better one. The reason I am contacting you is for a quote/"possibility check." Is it possible for you to build me an extremely historically accurate Low Power Narrow Panel Tweed Twin? I would like it with 2 8 ohm Weber 12A150A speakers (for a total 4 ohm amp) and have them in the normal arrangement of that amp. Like I said, as historically accurate as possible. Tubes, whatever is best for you. Cheaper current manufacture ones are fine, but I want it to be the same type of tubes (3 12AY7s, 1 12AX7, 2 5881s and 2 5U4Gs). I would also like a red indicator light and if possible, the Mission logo on the top of the narrow panel and not on the grill cloth, just like the originals. But, I would like an internal bias pot on the amp so I can make those adjustments. To sum it up, pretty much go for historical accuracy + internal bias pot. Transformers, I would like the a Murcury Magnetics one if possible. I am just wondering if you can make this amp for me and price. I am not ready to make any purchases yet. If I decide to buy this amp from you, and it is possible that you can make it, I will give you a more specific specifications list of what exactly I want to go into the amp (transformer model, tubes, etc). So for now, I would like a price quote and if this amp is even possible in the first place. Thank you very much for your time."

I tried to sound professional. I said that tubes did not matter because I did not want to burden him with finding the exact tubes that I want and ordering them and telling him to put them in etc etc. Im guessing that this amp is going to cost well over $2000, and if it goes into $3000, fugheddaboudit (or however the hell you spell that). But I seen that the Aurora 30 watt only costs about $1500. How much did your V-front Super cost, the guy who invented fire? Thanks.

Bruce is my brother...I'll tell him to keep an eye out for your email.

He's finally getting some orders for the Auroras. I knew it was just a matter of time...he was hoping to sell some in Dallas and was a little disappointed that everyone loved the amp but he didn't sell any. Now some of those guys who loved it are getting back with him and placing orders.


Lew

 

[Gunny47]

Re: More Tweed Stuff

Actually, I did not email it, I put it in the page that says contact us where you can write a note to him. I filled out the form and wrote that message in that little box. Thanks for your help BTW.