My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

[Edgecrusher]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

and, in my opinion, it leaves a wrong impression about this amp. It can be misleading for people (especially beginners) thinking about buying it.

No it doesnt not at all. The OP very clearly states its his opinion and feeling on the amp. Which he is genuinely entitled too. He did not disparage the windsor at all really. We get it you have a huge chubby for the windsor but its not a damsel in distress that needs defending. People who are looking to buy something need to hear negative opinions of it just as much as they do positive ones.

YOUR opinion is not the be all end all opinion of the windsor iam sorry to say.

 

[vivanchenko]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

My opinion is just my opinion and I didn't attempt to make it more important than anyone ease's opinion. When one plays a JCM 800 side by side with a Windsor you won't hate either amp. Saying that people hate the Windsor because they expect it to sound like a JCM 800 is wrong in my opinion. Doing a blind test one might have a hard time telling which is which.

 

[vivanchenko]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

Old thread I know.....The windsor is a great budget tube amp, period. Peavey is usually pretty rock solid when it comes to ruggedness as well. I used to plug into one alot when I worked at the store (that and the valveking). Surprisingly good at low volumes too considering...

But as an owner of 2 JCM800's...don't kid yourself.

So you mean to say you can get your 2 JCM800 amps to sound much better than this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aW_22MsTmY right? Can you give a reference of a JCM 800 sounding like or any better than this? I mean other than Van Halen himself who did with his amp god only knows what.

 

[Securb]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

Don't see what's the problem about this.

The problem is not your passion for the Peavey Windsor, it is your bashing of other amps. If you don't like a piece of gear saying it is not for you is fine. I frequently state on these forums that I can't pull a tone I like out of Orange amps but I hear people consistently getting awesome tones out of them. Yeah, every piece of gear is not going to be a fit for every musician. However, if something doesn't work for you there is no need to call it crap. The guitar players that spend hundreds of hard earned dollars on that amp might/will take offence. The JCM 2000 is a solid amp. Joe Bonamassa, Robin Trower, Jeff Beck, Gary Moore all use DSLs and seem to be able to get a great tones out of them. If you are unable to, that is on you not the amp.

 

[vivanchenko]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

Well, saying that the DSL sucks was not a right thing to do and I apologize for this. It was conceived as a very different (more modern sounding) amp as compared to the JCM 800 and it is not correct to compare them. Didn't see Robin Trower or Jeff Beck ever play the DSLs though. If they did, they certainly didn't use it for a long time or very often. As far as I know Robin Trower plays Vintage Modern these days.

 

[Securb]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

Didn't see Robin Trower or Jeff Beck ever play the DSLs though.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

My opinion is just my opinion and I didn't attempt to make it more important than anyone ease's opinion.

Ummm but you did, by bumping an 8 month old dead thread to right the wrong that is another persons opinion you are saying that the OP's opinion is wrong and mine is right and therefore more important.

When one plays a JCM 800 side by side with a Windsor you won't hate either amp.

This is just blindly silly to say. How can you presume to know what other people will think when they play the amps side by side? Its quite possible that a person could hate BOTH amps. Or is very possible they could love one and hate the other.

Saying that people hate the Windsor because they expect it to sound like a JCM 800 is wrong in my opinion. Doing a blind test one might have a hard time telling which is which.

Then please explain why do people hate the windsor, and im not talking about people responding to youtube videos, you can find people who own it who hate it. You can find people of all opinions of it. From elation to ambivalence to apathy.


Something you need to think about and take to heart is at the end of the day no matter how much you love the windsor it was largely a failure. Many dealers had a hard time selling them and while the amp has its fans (but then again so does easy cheese) the overall response was lukewarm. No matter how much you jump up and down and scream that its so cheap and sounds so much better than a marshall the prevailing general opinion is that no it wasnt. Even now that its been discontinued you dont find people willing to pay more than a pittance for it which says a lot about what people really think of it.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

Leave him alone he can post here too
You don't have to agree with him or disagree

*(Sent from my durned phone!)*

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

Leave him alone he can post here too
You don't have to agree with him or disagree

*(Sent from my durned phone!)*

I never said he couldnt I did question his motives for doing so though. Flip side of that coin is that I can post here also. If hes allowed to say that 75Lespaul is wrong then iam allowed to say that hes not wrong.

Thank you though I didnt know that I didnt have to agree with him... or disagree! BTW that was sarcasm.

 

[vivanchenko]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

I, personally, have not seen yet anyone who hates this amp. May be you do? People not buying something does not mean anything. People didn’t care for Gibson Les Pauls a few decades ago and stores had a very hard time selling them and they had being discontinued exactly for the reason. So what? Now the same thing is termed as a Holy Grail and it is being sold for hundreds of thousands dollars. I personally don't care for things like "general consensus" because it had being so stupidly wrong so many times.

You are talking about people hating this amp, but you didn't produce any tangible reason what to hate it for. On the contrary, I demonstrated evidence where the Windsor sounds like the cream of the crop. Could you just show a video where the JCM 800 sounds much better making the Windsor hateable? It should be very easy to do for such a great amp. Some might not like the Windsor because they are more into different things or styles, or want more clean headroom, but hating it? What for?

YouTube is pretty much adequate for guitar amp comparisons though nothing can compare with first hand experience. You don't mean to tell that it is YouTube compression that made the Windsor sound so well, do you? After all, all artists are using YouTube these days to reach out to their audience and we are not talking hifi here. Tell Mick Jagger or Steve Vie or many, many other great artists not to use YouTube because it sucks.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

We've rode this choo choo before and I produced a lot of different tangible things that people could hate the windsor for. But sound isnt tangible now is it.

The problem with your challenge is that any video presented as evidence that another amp is superior would be dismissed as subjective since what we are talking about here is subjective.

You have provided no evidence that it sounds like "the cream of the crop" you have linked two bad youtube videos. Sorry but if you think you can tell anything about how something really sounds from something recorded onto a cellphone camera you are delusional.

The compression on youtube is meh at best. But much more so the quality of whats uploaded to it is very low particularly in the case of you the "evidence" videos you have linked.


So we come around the circle again. Please explain to me why 75Lespauls opinion is invalid or not as worthy as yours as you have implied by stating that his opinion is wrong.

 

[vivanchenko]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

I am sorry, but you didn't produce anything. Most importantly, neither you nor the OP showed or explained why exactly one will hate the Windsor if he expects it to sound like a JCM 800. About 20 people who posted under this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aW_22MsTmY say that the Windsor nails Van Halen and none disagreed. Now, you and the OP are speaking about hate which is a very strong feeling which is not likely to be caused by a subtle difference. So, what is the profound difference in your opinion? Can you or anyone else give a reference to a JCM 800 sound which will make many people hate the Windsor as shown in the video I am referring to? It is not hard to get the Windsor to sound like that once you crank the EL34 power amp (neighbors, oh neighbors!) . There must be lots of great JCM 800 demos around...

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

So you mean to say you can get your 2 JCM800 amps to sound much better than this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aW_22MsTmY right? Can you give a reference of a JCM 800 sounding like or any better than this? I mean other than Van Halen himself who did with his amp god only knows what.

Get your head out of your ass, seriously. You turned a good discussion into a pissing match, which devalue's your statements. I defended the Windsor here too if you remember. And yeah your clip sounds great, very VH for sure, but that's not how we define good amps, bedroom level with a camera mic. The tone is just as much about the feel of the amp (both how it reacts to your playing and how it punches you in the face) as it is the sound coming out of my headphones listening to that clip. In case you didn't catch what I meant in my first post, it was that the Windsor is a solid, great sounding amp, but it ain't an 800.

There must be lots of great JCM 800 demos around...

Yup, there are.... on thousands of different records.

 

[vivanchenko]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

A good discussion like you will hate the Windsor if you expect it to sound like a Marshall? What's so good about it? Can you elaborate what exactly will cause the hate? Keeping in mind that many people have a hard time telling one from another in a blind test.

And please, watch your language, young man.

 

[burster1]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

I started another thread with the info below but, feel it can apply here.

With a few changed, jumpered and removed parts the Windsor preamp can be used as a JCM800 pre. Since a cathodyne PI was used on the Windsor power amp it would take a lot of finagling to convert it to a JCM800 style power amp. I feel the cathodyne PI is what kills the Windsor from achieving a true JCM800 sound.

I'm laying out a new power amp board for the Windsor head based on a JCM800. I will use spade plugs and pins as needed but, plan on removing the 9 pin header and direct connect the boards with better wire. Do you guys think there is a market for something like this? Maybe $25 a board and $50 to $60 stuffed?

 

[Securb]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

What is killing your argument is you are trying to tell us that the Windsor sounds more like an 800 than a DSL does. Marshall designed the DSL to mimic the 800. So what you are trying to say is Peavey did a better job of mimicking a Marshall than Marshall did. If that is your opion it is all good. However, don't expect many people to drink that Peavey Windsor Kool-Aid with you and don't freak out when they don't.

From the Marshall DSL user manual.

The Classic Gain channel features two modes – Clean and Crunch. With the button pressed in, the Clean mode is reminiscent of an early 1959 Plexi Super Lead head and, depending on the Gain setting (2) will take you from clean to a Plexi style crunch. With the button pressed out, the Crunch mode gives you a JCM800 2203 style grind.

The Ultra Gain channel features two selectable modes – Lead 1 & Lead 2. Lead 1 (button out) gives an open, high-gain crunch, with traditional Marshall characteristics, similar to a hot-rodded JCM 800 2203. Lead 2 (button in) produces a mid-boosted tone with even higher gain possibilities.

 

[vivanchenko]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

Well, I am not saying that the Windsor has true JCM 800 sound. Nobody knows what it is anyway, because each rock icon has his own version of it. The Windsor sounds close to the JCM 800, as close as any two or more other modifications of JCM 800 sound to each other and it sounds just as good/pleasing as any JCM 800. In this video the master volume is cranked https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aW_22MsTmY . How exactly a cathodyne PI affects sound here? I studied cathodyne PI and I know that if designed incorrectly the signal will be distorted by frequency doubling and pinching which does create a raspy sound, but these problems are well known and easily avoided by amp designers. If designed correctly cathodyne PI will have a more favorable (pleasing) signal configuration than the LTP PI used by Marshall. Lots (probably most) of iconic amps have cathodyne PI (most of vintage Fenders, most of vintage and modern Oranges) and believe me, there is nothing to hate there for any amp lover including Marshall lovers. Before we discus what contributes to a bad sound it is a good idea to identify and demonstrate what makes the Windsors hateable to a Marshall lover. Like it is too bright, not bright enough, muddy, unpleasing distortion, raspy distortion, bad EQ, etc. Please, note, people are talking about hate caused by the Windsor. All of what I would like to understand here is what causes the hate. As of now we haven't got any rational opinion in this regard.

 

[vivanchenko]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

What is killing your argument is you are trying to tell us that the Windsor sounds more like an 800 than a DSL does. Marshall designed the DSL to mimic the 800. So what you are trying to say is Peavey did a better job of mimicking a Marshall than Marshall did. If that is your opion it is all good. However, don't expect many people to drink that Peavey Windsor Kool-Aid with you and don't freak out when they don't.

From the Marshall DSL user manual.

If the DSL was exactly what the manual says there wouldn't be a Vintage Modern. The DSL is a great, legendary amp in its own right. I played many of them, including the JCM 2000, and I own a DSL 15 head. What I would like to know is what is causing HATE towards the Windsor.

 

[burster1]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

There is a lot more components in the signal path of the Windsor pre than a JCM800 pre. First off remove those and adjust a few part values and the Windsor pre is fine. Other amps might use a cathodyne PI but, the JCM800 does not. To achieve a closer JCM800 power amp sound we have to change the PI and adjust some of the resistor values. Once I finish the pcb layout I will etch, cut and drill a homemade version. If it goes as planned I will order a real version. The thing I need to know is if there is anybody that wants one. I would rather order 25 to 50 and sell them via ebay or directly here.

:headbang:

 

[Securb]

Re: My take on the Peavey Windsor head...

Well, I am not saying that the Windsor has true JCM 800 sounds.

If you like classic Marshall tones the Windsor is for you! It is more "Marshally" than many Marshalls....The JCM800 sounded very similar the Windsor