NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

[sosomething]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

This thread has so much more to do with some people's issues with class than any issues with gear.

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[Dr.K]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

Since this is back ttt, I just don't wan't anyone to lose sight of the fact I think these AGILES are groovy guitars, and as a grateful guest here , please remember that these Agiles BEG for a pickup swap with a new set of Seymour Duncans to get some nice tone!

Lets go ahead and let this thread die with dignity now.

Close it.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

Close it.

Not yet. I think it might be ready to fade away.

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

This thread has so much more to do with some people's issues with class than any issues with gear.

So often you're the smartest guy in the room.

 

[sosomething]

Re: Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

Re: Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

So often you're the smartest guy in the room.

That's kind of my thing.

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[xntrick]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

Let's not forget that intoxicated people in a late-night bar situation wouldn't give two horse craps about whether you are playing a $10,000 Les Paul through a SLO-100 or an Agile played through a Jet City. Purely these sorts of things, at least in the situation most of us are in, only matter to ourselves. We don't pay ourselves to play gigs and we don't buy our own records. Honestly man, I have enjoyed myself more playing gigs with guys traveling in a dirty old van, full of beat up middle-grade equipment, than with the "blues lawyers" with the uber awesome gear, carried in their BMW SUV.

this post sums it up quite well, now back to playing my cheap gear...

 

[blueman335]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

So what's the goal here, anyway? Some of us are trying to prove that there's never a legitimate reason for anyone to buy an expensive guitar, and some others are trying to prove that they're worth the money to some players?

Always the wise guy, Jesse. Certainly there's vaild reasons for owning high-end equipment. But as often as some guys here try to push expensive guitars on everyone, it's definitely misleading. If you're playing gigs in the average dive bar, do yourself a favor and don't take a $2,500 guitar. If you're a mediocre bedroom player, no, a high-end guitar will not magically make you a better player, practicing a lot will, and you can do that just as well on a mid-price import. And if your family is doing without while you accumulate a stack of high-priced gear, then that's kind of indulgent and inconsiderate.

Those things aside, if you can afford it and can appreciate the difference of a high-end guitar, then by all means get some. I'm just tired of people asking for advice about guitars and being bombarded with posts telling them they have to get something expensive. No, they don't. Get what you like that's within your budget, and impress people with your playing, regardless of what's on the headstock.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

I think it's the "tone" of the review that sets people off. Not only is it just a diatribe about how the Agile is OK but isn't anywhere near the Gibson, there's no sound clips or anything other than what seems to be an indignant stab at budget guitars. Let's HEAR it! Give us some fair, well-recorded demos of the two guitars. Just like I'm not going to buy an Agile based on, "Hey dude, this guitar is every bit as good as my real Gibson", I'm not going to feel inclined to ignore Rondo because somebody states they are crap. I've seen a few comparison videos on YouTube and granted, the sound quality isn't awesome, but I have to say the top-end Agile that was reviewed stands up pretty well tone-wise. Now, the "feel" of the guitar, the finish quality, thickness of the poly, etc are also factors, but at the end of the day we make music that is to be heard by somebody.

 

[sosomething]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

"Expensive" means different things to different people.

Proponents of cheap guitars *often seem to react to suggestions of getting something better with "But I have a family to take care of!! Not everyone is wealthy beyond measure like those who can afford Gibsons!! DO YOU WANT MY CHILDREN TO STARVE???"

Which is silly.

Stop blaming your wife and family for your inability to save money or resist the instant gratification of buying something right now.

A lot of people will complain about Gibson pricing and how it keeps the everyman from owning one of their guitars, and talk about how people only buy Gibsons out of vanity over the name on the headstock, and then turn around and plunk down half a grand on some piece of Asian gumpwood crusted with six pounds of abalone binding... and I wonder, what happened to their selfless utilitarianism?

I feel that if your household is really living so hand-to-mouth that you can't save up another $400 for one of the really good mid-level Gibsons selling used for < $900 on Ebay day in and day out, you probably shouldn't be accumulating electric guitars until you can manage your expenses better in the first place.

Which is the more responsible thing? To invest the $800 in a used Gibson that could be turned around for zero loss, or to spend $450 on a new budget import and immediately flush $200 of it in any potential for resale?

M2C.

*If you really don't perceive the difference in quality, or find the differences to be negligible to the point of diminished return on the extra investment, that's fair. Enjoy your import guitar - you won't find me judging you.

 

[formula73]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

I love sosomething.

 

[blueman335]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

Which is the more responsible thing? To invest the $800 in a used Gibson that could be turned around for zero loss, or to spend $450 on a new budget import and immediately flush $200 of it in any potential for resale?

Ah, apples and oranges. Compare the price of a used Gibson, that someone has already taken the hit on when he sold it for less than he paid for it, versus a new import. Nice slight of hand. It's a little more objective when you compare the new price of both or the used price of both.

Many Gibsons cost 4 or 5 times the equivalent Epi model, new or used. Is a Gibson worth 4 or 5 times as much? 3 times as much? Yeah, you need to upgrade PU's on an Epi, but plenty of guys do that with their Gibsons too, something that should rarely happen when you spend 2 or 3 grand on a guitar.

 

[sosomething]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

Ah, apples and oranges. Compare the price of a used Gibson, that someone has already taken the hit on when he sold it for less than he paid for it, versus a new import. Nice slight of hand. It's a little more objective when you compare the new price of both or the used price of both.

Not when you consider that the vaaaast majority of people buying Agiles are purchasing them new from Rondo. Sure, you could get a used one from Ebay I guess... But I'm unaware of a whole lot of people doing that. Conversely, there's quite an active market around used Gibsons - even when discussing more recent models.

And that's to say nothing of the large (and growing) number of lower-end USA Gibsons selling at price points very competitive to the Agile/Epiphone crowd.

Many Gibsons cost 4 or 5 times the equivalent Epi model, new or used. Is a Gibson worth 4 or 5 times as much? 3 times as much? Yeah, you need to upgrade PU's on an Epi, but plenty of guys do that with their Gibsons too, something that should rarely happen when you spend 2 or 3 grand on a guitar.

If you're upgrading pickups on your guitar, it's a matter of preference either way. Though I think it's fair to say that the perceived need of an "upgrade" with most Gibsons (and hence Gibson pickups) is considerably slimmer than with the no-name Asian jobbies bolted to many Epis.

Regardless, this point either ticks in favor of the Gibson or it's a wash.

---

Beyond that, I stand behind my post and find its main point as-yet unrefuted.

 

[sbecker67]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

.....Proponents of cheap guitars *often seem to react to suggestions of getting something better.....Which is silly.

Yes and no. I was in a position early in my life where my family responsibilities absolutely prevented me from spending $1 on anything that did not benefit the whole; much less something for purely personal gratification and hobby pursuits. Your observation isn't necessarily wrong, for most people, but it is probably heavily influenced by your own situation which, albeit, may be closer to the norm but is not a reflection of the whole.

I may have reached a point now where I would be considered "well off" but I haven't forgotten where I've been and I can relate to someone who claims to be on a budget. I spent 15 years playing a Hondo II through a 6" Gorilla, literally. So you can imagine that I didn't really play all that much!! If Bugera and Agile had been around then I could of had an opportunity to own some really decent gear and probably have been encouraged to play more.

Where I react strongly, and in defense of 'budget' gear, is against the complete jack-assery in the comments that are directed toward both those people in search of and the budget gear itself. Some people just feel compelled to tear down anything that challenges their belief system. They'll stand on the shoulders of a drowning man just to keep their own head above water.

I had no objection what-so-ever to the OP observations and review and I don't recall any replies from Agile owners being anything other than supportive or inquisitive. Can't say the same degree of consideration and general respect was demonstrated by the Gibson faithful though.

 

[sosomething]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

Yes and no. I was in a position early in my life where my family responsibilities absolutely prevented me from spending $1 on anything that did not benefit the whole; much less something for purely personal gratification and hobby pursuits. Your observation isn't necessarily wrong, for most people, but it is probably heavily influenced by your own situation which, albeit, may be closer to the norm but is not a reflection of the whole.

I may have reached a point now where I would be considered "well off" but I haven't forgotten where I've been and I can relate to someone who claims to be on a budget. I spent 15 years playing a Hondo II through a 6" Gorilla, literally. So you can imagine that I didn't really play all that much!! If Bugera and Agile had been around then I could of had an opportunity to own some really decent gear and probably have been encouraged to play more.

Where I react strongly, and in defense of 'budget' gear, is against the complete jack-assery in the comments that are directed toward both those people in search of and the budget gear itself. Some people just feel compelled to tear down anything that challenges their belief system. They'll stand on the shoulders of a drowning man just to keep their own head above water.

I had no objection what-so-ever to the OP observations and review and I don't recall any replies from Agile owners being anything other than supportive or inquisitive. Can't say the same degree of consideration and general respect was demonstrated by the Gibson faithful though.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

I should probably modify my generalization to exclude people for whom the choice is either A.) inexpensive import guitar or B.) no guitar at all.

I'm not gonna sit here from my comfortably-employed life situation (at the moment!) and cast aspersions on people who legitimately cannot spend one single penny more on any non-essential item. That's some real **** right there.

I'm mostly talking about people who own multiple cheapo imports of various stripe and spend even more money upgrading all the pickups and hardware, etc., and then poormouth when people asked them why they didn't just buy a better guitar...

 

[IanBallard]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

"Expensive" means different things to different people.

Proponents of cheap guitars *often seem to react to suggestions of getting something better with "But I have a family to take care of!! Not everyone is wealthy beyond measure like those who can afford Gibsons!! DO YOU WANT MY CHILDREN TO STARVE???"

Which is silly.

Stop blaming your wife and family for your inability to save money or resist the instant gratification of buying something right now.

People "save money"? I didn't think they did that since the gold standard. I figured it was all about maxing out credit cards in this epoch.

I don't think it's a matter of "blaming" the fam for not going out and pulling out the credit card or breaking open the piggy bank to get a shiny new Gibson Les Paul. I think it's pragmatism. I don't expect THAT much from a $600 Korean guitar, especially at my rudimentary guitar level. Even if I was interested in a Les Paul type guitar, I probably wouldn't want to settle for a Studio or a lower-line production Gibson because I want the thick maple cap, a nice burst finish and I want a solid, non-chambered guitar. If I want a stripped-down, lighter all mahogany Gibson, I'd go for an SG.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

I'm mostly talking about people who own multiple cheapo imports of various stripe and spend even more money upgrading all the pickups and hardware, etc., and then poormouth when people asked them why they didn't just buy a better guitar...

I have one Squier guitar that I bought "just to have something to plunk around on", but when I got more serious and into focusing on it, I made the decision to incrementally upgrade it over time. A pickup here, a new bridge there, new tuners later, eventually a Floyd, as my playing got better and my demands for tuning stability and certain tones came into being. I really don't need a second guitar until I am in a gainful gigging mode and need a backup. I only spent a total of about $600 on everything and I think what I have now, works and sounds fine. I have no need to buy a Charvel when my alder, Floyd, Duncan, Sperzel-loaded ax is a pretty decent Charvel wanna be that I spent wisely on over time. I could have saved up and waited, but that's a lot of time w/o a guitar and a lot of experience that would have been lost learning how to build, repair and mod guitars. But that's just me...

 

[blueman335]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

Sure, you could get a used one from Ebay I guess... But I'm unaware of a whole lot of people doing that.

Funny isn't it. Most guys that buy Agiles seem to keep them; not many used ones around, especially on eBay where used ones are rare. Seems to indicate a degree of satisfaction and perceived value.

 

[richard parker]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

This is a very long thread and I don't have time to read it. Can someone give me a summary ?

 

[sosomething]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

I have one Squier guitar that I bought "just to have something to plunk around on", but when I got more serious and into focusing on it, I made the decision to incrementally upgrade it over time. A pickup here, a new bridge there, new tuners later, eventually a Floyd, as my playing got better and my demands for tuning stability and certain tones came into being. I really don't need a second guitar until I am in a gainful gigging mode and need a backup. I only spent a total of about $600 on everything and I think what I have now, works and sounds fine. I have no need to buy a Charvel when my alder, Floyd, Duncan, Sperzel-loaded ax is a pretty decent Charvel wanna be that I spent wisely on over time. I could have saved up and waited, but that's a lot of time w/o a guitar and a lot of experience that would have been lost learning how to build, repair and mod guitars. But that's just me...

That's cool, man. I think that if it were me, I'd be a little frustrated by the idea of how much more guitar I could have for my $600 than an upgraded Squier.

And then I'd think about what I could sell the upgraded Squier for, and realize I'm probably looking at about 300 bucks, and then I'd feel even worse.

But that's just me.

 

[sosomething]

Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

Funny isn't it. Most guys that buy Agiles seem to keep them; not many used ones around, especially on eBay where used ones are rare. Seems to indicate a degree of satisfaction and perceived value.

You could look at it that way.

You could also wonder if they don't pop up on ebay much because the utter lack of demand for a used one keeps their resale value in the toilet.