no longer a Bogner Fan

[PVFan]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

what? youre whole thread was saying just about that. Oh well....

No, it hasn't been.

If you tthink a Peavay is in the same class as an esoteric Bogner than dream on my deluded friend..dream on.

Okay, I will.

Again (again), all things considered, I will take Peavey. If I was a millionaire, it would be different. Everything would be different. I'd be more willing to put up with the trouble and time and $$$ for that extra little 5% of tone sweetness.

You can't understand what I am saying because I've turned in my cult membership card, and you haven't been deprogrammed like I have. Try the kool-aid.

 

[PVFan]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

The Uberkab has 2 Vin 30's and 2 G75T's, right? That's really a great combo for a 4-12 designed for rock/metal. I set both of my Jubillee cabs up that way, and they sound great. The straight cab is one of the best sounding cabs I've ever heard.

yeah, in an X-pattern, with the secret ingredient being the hot water heater insulation blanket inside that absorbs the sibilance I guess.

It's a warm cab.

 

[JMR]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

what? youre whole thread was saying just about that. Oh well...
If you tthink a Peavay is in the same class as an esoteric Bogner than dream on my deluded friend..dream on.

Peavey is in a class by itself : amps that sound great, last forever, and cost a pittance compared to an average "high end" tube amp.

The truth of this will either reach you or it wont, and you will continue swinging off J Marshalls/ R. Bogners balls. Either way, Peavey rules anything else in its price range, and most crap that is much higher than its price range.

pound for pound, Peavey >>>>>>> all.

 

[jerryjg]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

Peavey is in a class by itself : amps that sound great, last forever, and cost a pittance compared to an average "high end" tube amp.

The truth of this will either reach you or it wont, and you will continue swinging off J Marshalls/ R. Bogners balls. Either way, Peavey rules anything else in its price range, and most crap that is much higher than its price range.

pound for pound, Peavey >>>>>>> all.

Then how come noone uses them?:lmao:

No, it hasn't been.

Well the whole premise of your thread was how Bogners are too complex of a circuit to perform reliably, and that they do not perform reliably (then you continue on to say that you think they fail miserably at thier sound given the high price of the amps).
Then I came on and intimated that they were like expensive exotic sports cars to give an analogy, that and if you want that level of performance from and amp-meaning a very complex circuit [pushing massively hot current thorugh hot biased tubes and such], then that you must suffer the consequnces of accepting the amp isnt going to be as relaible or cost effective as something of a less intricate and less exotic nature.

 

[JMR]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

Then how come noone uses them?:lmao:

Everyone uses them, they just take the faceplate/logos off, or hide them behind the fake "backline" of empty Marshall cabs.

 

[PVFan]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

Then how come noone uses them?:lmao:

Holy gosh, and I thought I was making a bunch of ridiculous comments.

Jerry, everybody uses them. On albums, on stage. Ted Nugent, Steve Morse, Lynard Skynard, Satch, darn-tootin' near every metal band. Even artists that can afford Bogners. Even the Rolling cotton-pickin' Stones.

The Rolling Stones, Jerry. 5150s.

Oh yeah. Ed Van Halen seemed to like them too. I daresay I think you are kidding, aren't you. The artists number in the very very large.

that and if you want that level of performance from and amp-meaning a very complex circuit [pushing massively hot current thorugh hot biased tubes and such], then that you must suffer the consequnces of accepting the amp isnt going to be as relaible or cost effective as something of a less intricate and less exotic nature.

Okay, agreed, yes, that was much of my thrust. I did not know that's what you meant by "horsepower." I don't think they "fail miserably" as you put it in interpreting me.

The Bogner Chime is special, it is magical, it's that extra 5%. It ain't worth $3000 to me.

50 points for use of the word "intimated."




To my brethren giving me the beatdown (I won't be able to sleep until Hot_Grits gets here and let's me have it): Plug into a Penta and tell me it's not great, cripes, ESPECIALLY for the price tag.

.

 

[supernosher]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

I like jerry's analogy of the exotic sports car. If you have a 25 PSI turbo pushing your engine, you better know you gotta rebuild it every so often. Much more often than a non-aspirated '87 Volvo.

I have modded my Classic 30 and I must say I hate how they are constructed. I know they are low-end Peavey's but you never see a MESA built that poorly.

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

Holy gosh, and I thought I was making a bunch of ridiculous comments.

Jerry, everybody uses them. On albums, on stage. Ted Nugent, Steve Morse, Lynard Skynard, Satch, darn-tootin' near every metal band. Even artists that can afford Bogners. Even the Rolling cotton-pickin' Stones.

The Rolling Stones, Jerry. 5150s.

Oh yeah. Ed Van Halen seemed to like them too. I daresay I think you are kidding, aren't you. The artists number in the very very large.



Okay, agreed, yes, that was much of my thrust. I did not know that's what you meant by "horsepower." I don't think they "fail miserably" as you put it in interpreting me.

The Bogner Chime is special, it is magical, it's that extra 5%. It ain't worth $3000 to me.

50 points for use of the word "intimated."




To my brethren giving me the beatdown (I won't be able to sleep until Hot_Grits gets here and let's me have it): Plug into a Penta and tell me it's not great, cripes, ESPECIALLY for the price tag.

.

when did the stones use 5150s? -I'm not doubting you but I'd like to know when that was. Maybe they're hiding them inside Fender CS tweed twin and Victoria Double Deluxe shells...

I've plugged into the Penta. I thought it was pretty average. George Lynch also may have also thought it was average, as he bailed on the design (it was going to be his sig amp).

Peaveys are fine. I've had to gig PV stuff as provided backline occasionally, and while they don't send me into spasms of joy I could get through a gig fine.

On reliability: my understanding talking to local techs is that Peaveys are as common as any other mass produced amp in terms of repairs. And techs HATE them, as they are terrible to work on, due to issues with layout. My tech always jokes about putting 'NO PEAVEYS' on his business card. Just retubing the pre section of the 5150 and feeling the board flex gives me the craps. I have seen some PVs that run well, and some others that are just turkeys.

On the other hand, I like every Bogner I've tried, though the Uber isn't really my bag. it's too early to tell on reliability as they've only been available locally for the last 6 months, but I've looked inside and the amps are very nicely made. Hartley would charge an awful lot more for his amps if he built them to the same standard.

But that's just my personal taste. If you're happy with your amp, then that's all you need.

 

[PVFan]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

when did the stones use 5150s? -I'm not doubting you but I'd like to know when that was.

I've plugged into the Penta. I thought it was pretty average. George Lynch also must have thought it was average, as he bailed on the design (it was going to be his sig amp).

...

On reliability: my understanding talking to local techs is that Peaveys are as common as any other mass produced amp in terms of repairs. And techs HATE them, as they are terrible to work on, due to issues with layout. My tech always jokes about putting 'NO PEAVEYS' on his business card. Just retubing the pre section of the 5150 and feeling the board flex gives me the craps.

[editing quote cuz the text I entered is too long]

Ah, there you are, perfect timing, as I'm just now taking a break from A/B'ing these amps for the 3rd night in a row, at all volumes. My ears are ringing because I was just playing them LOUD. Uber dirty volume and master both on 7, 6505+ post on 5. Yeah, exactly. That's loud, kids.

Let me get the niceties out of the way, then on with the crazies.

I was watching VH1's Top 40 Stupid Celebrity Quotes the other night (swept by Jessica Simpson and Paris Hilton) and there was one from Mick Jagger, and really his wasn't that dumb. They showed the Stones on stage playing and I saw a 5150. As I type this I realize I could be mistaken; it might have been one of the times Mick went solo, not the Stones, except I thought I saw Keef. Bit of a factoid stretch, not documented data. Sue me.

Wasn't it the XXX that was supposed to be the Lynch sig, not the Penta?

"Just retubing the pre section of the 5150 and feeling the board flex gives me the craps." :lmao: I needed that laugh.

Okay, here we go.

Holy crap
Holy crap
Holy crap
Holy crap
Holy crap
Holy crap
Holy crap

Did the power tubes just need breaking in? Because the Uber sounds sooo much better tonight. The "clicking" sound on the clean channel is gone. A lot of the buzz on the dirty channel is gone. The more you turn it up, the better it sounds. The lead sounds are fantastic. It seems to play easier. Still shy on harmonics; the Peavey pops and squeals with ease when I pinch 'em. The Uber's mid gain settings are throaty and snappy again. The cleans are rich and pleasing again.

Dagnabit, just W in TF ?


It's still a bit boomy, and bassy, even with the bass knob on 3.

Man I'm so torn on returning it or not. Here's exactly what happened.

I had a '93 white chassis Ecstasy. It had the greatest distortion, the most balls, the most fantastic cleans, just--it was the best amp ever. And I hauled it everywhere to play it and use it and had no problems. Cut to now. Newer Ecstasys don't have the same mojo to me, and I really just chase 2 tones: clean, and hard rock/metal. Trying to do something new, not recreate anything vintage. Don't need all the switches and plexi modes and A/AB and pentode/triode really. No disrespect, it's just not what I need, and all the bands I've been in I've always just needed 2 tones and the volume knob on the guitar, same with my studio. I liked the Ubers a bit more, cuz they are more evil, and the knobs have wide ranges in them, and it seemed very flexible for doing the tone chasing for those 2 things. A bit cheaper.

Brought it home, blew a fuse. Replaced it and a microphonic V1 with another Sovtek LPS, but the sound degraded intermittently, and it gradually got worse. Many wouldn't have noticed until it was hard not to notice. Really boomy but anemic in the mids, super buzzy even with the gain knob set low. New power tubes didn't help, nor did moving around preamp tubes. Sent it to Bogner, they said a capacitor was fried, and something "non-functional" next to the power light was melted so they replaced it and "moved" it. New power tubes. Got it back Wednesday. Sounded awful.

Now I'm kinda diggin' it again. The 6505+'s distortion is almost as nice tonight, but it's such a more reliable amp. Sounds the same every time. Plus, it has that crunch mode if I do want the Plexisms.

I'm thinking the new tubes just needed breaking in, but I'm terrified it will start sounding like crap again. I guess you can't live like that, in fear, but I traded half my studio to get this because I don't have any money and I wasn't happy with what I had (just the Uberkab would have solved most of that problem, in hindsight). If I return it, I get a lot of stuff back, mostly mediocre stuff I can live without I suppose, but also one really cool guitar that I miss.


So forget the rant and the anti-Bogner retaliation and my questionable decisions and just give me advice. I've got everyone's amp opinions.

I'm kinda stressin'.

 

[mediumpimpin]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

This thread makes me sad. I really have wanted am uber for a long time, I've never played thru one, but I've heard lots of 'em live and thought they were amazing. Other than the uber, I want an Engl really bad, like really bad, like unforgivable type things bad. I might have a band here shortly, but the lead player is a PV II player, so I don't wanna sound like him. I'm thinking Mesa Dual Rec 2 ch for the sake of being diff (ironic I know).


edit: I'd send that mofo back. You know it doesn't sound right, get it fixed!! Call everyday and tell them your effin Bogner does not sound right!!! From what I gather here, Reinhold is a very charismatic guy who loves his work, let him know. This thread is literally killing a lot of his sales, whether anybody wants to admit it.

 

[arbiter]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

the more i hear the 6505, the more i like it. but, it's not true that peaveys last forever. i have a xxl combo that has a loose thingie inside and as a result has a loud hum on lead and ultra channel. however, it endured alot, over 50 gigs and all that hauling around, and the only problem is still that buzz. i use pedals on clean, so that doesn't bother me much. all that said, i'm getting a 6505 as soon as possible.

 

[kjrocks]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

BognerFan, I can completely understand you whole point of this thread and I'm not sure why some got so wound up about it. Its pretty easy to sense your frustration with you current amp and I can appreciate the financial burden that the maintenance of some of these amps can cause. Hope it all works out for you, but I wouldnt give up on them yet. Get on the phone and get some communications going. I think it would pay off.

 

[Gr8Scott]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

Peavey Classic 50 has amazing cleans. That is all.

 

[jerryjg]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

Peavey Classic 50 has amazing cleans. That is all.

Sorry. I thought you meant the old "Classic" VTX.

 

[Wattage]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

Since I'm waiting on my Alchemist, I can say I'm shocked with BognerFans comments. Up to this post, I've held Bogners in the highest regard. Still, I do appreciate your thoughts and I will make sure I'm 100% satisfied the Alchemist when I try it out...I'll also make sure the warranty is all good. Can you tell us how often and what kinda gigs you play? I do know one guy here who uses a XTC and told me his tubes blew, had it serviced and it was'nt quite right...

The Alchemist is going to built in the Line6 plant in China if I understood correctly, my Vetta is built really well no issues and the new Spider/Bogners seem pretty sturdy as well I wouldn't worry about it too much.

That said I haven't really played any Bogners that made me crazy but it isn't like I am a tone snob by any stretch.

 

[butnut]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

Sounds good bro...yeah, it's built in the Line 6 factory. I dig your tone!

 

[Hoss]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

Bogners are better suited for boat anchors!!!

And anyone using one is a MORON!!!

especially people named Joe who also do side work on presidential campaigns!!!

:lmao: :11: :lmao:

 

[Wattage]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

Sounds good bro...yeah, it's built in the Line 6 factory. I dig your tone!

Thanks!:notworthy It really is based quite heavily on how many beers I have on top of the amp at any given time:alcoholic

I use Peavey and I really like them but I blew one up doing exactly what I was supposed to be doing. They did fix it and it was fine after that but I did eat a brand new set of Winged C's that they wouldn't cover obviously. Hey I loved my SD Convertible but I couldn't keep it running so I got rid of it. Being functional is a rather important part of an amps job last I checked.

An aside but I like Jolly's thoughts on amp tone - "you know those dials on there do something if you turn 'em". Lots to be said for that regardless of brand.

 

[PVFan]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

Since I'm waiting on my Alchemist, I can say I'm shocked with BognerFans comments. Up to this post, I've held Bogners in the highest regard. Still, I do appreciate your thoughts and I will make sure I'm 100% satisfied the Alchemist when I try it out...I'll also make sure the warranty is all good. Can you tell us how often and what kinda gigs you play? I do know one guy here who uses a XTC and told me his tubes blew, had it serviced and it was'nt quite right...

Don't let me throw you off. I was just being sulky and tantrum-y.

Alchemists are fine, sound fine. It seemed like a hi-fi take on a vintage idea. But yeah, make sure it's the right sound for you.

 

[PVFan]

Re: no longer a Bogner Fan

This thread is literally killing a lot of his sales

Well, I don't want to do that. After all, what do I know.

When I step back from this tantrum thread, I can objectively say that his amps are great of course, and they have unique qualities, and of course they are worth the price tag to some people. And the few times I talked to Reinhold he was nice and helpful. I can't stay mad at that goofy genius feather-flapper.