Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

[Kent S.]

Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

One simple thing tho:

The symbol generally used for ground designates the neck green in the diagram titled "Barlo's Bluesy Big Apple Boogie Machine"! Really sounds great man! :laugh2:

Anyway lemme come back to the question: In the first DPDT that symbol says connect the neck green to B lug of the DPDT miniswitch labelling it as

A D

B E

C F

On the second DPDT it says connect it to A. I think one is a ground the other the neck green no? I think the drawing in the first DPDT one is wrong and B should be connected to ground; and in the second DPDT switch the drawing is right, that is A gets the neck green. No?

Anyway my head is spining now! :laugh2:

B

That is a ground symbol ... that tells you to ground neck green, and ground that *B* lug on the first DPDT (one on left); have no idea what you are referring to in regard to the second (one on right) DPDT? The neck green doesn't connect to that at all (it goes to ground hence the symbol) ... Look closely at the legend at the upper left hand corner.

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

That is a ground symbol ... that tells you to ground neck green, and ground that *B* lug on the first DPDT (one on left); have no idea what you are referring to in regard to the second (one on right) DPDT? The neck green doesn't connect to that at all (it goes to ground hence the symbol) ... Look closely at the legend at the upper left hand corner.

Got it. As I said my head was spinning! :laugh2:

B

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

No, the bridge pup gets split also, you didn't say anything about not splitting it in the bridge only position , and when the phase switch is pulled it will select which coil is split (a side benefit), the phase of the pup will be reversed even in full mode, but you won't hear any difference unless it's combined with the other pup (this is normal of course).



Never thought about it,from a hum-cancelling standpoint that idea repulses me ... :saeek: That's more trouble than it's worth, but it could be done with the addition of a on/off/on SPDT or DPDT switch to disable either split.



Yeah I think the dual volume in this set up will work out well ... Everything except for the neck only split and bridge only split will be hum-cancelling, they won't for obvious reasons ... man grab a compressor and try those as well, don't just let them go to waste.

The more positions the better. So I can get the bridge split as well. Cool!

Nevermind about the additional positions I indicated in the previous post. As I said in the edit part, screw them, I can get much more with the vol and tone controls anyway.

And BTW I always thought tele mid position was series. :smack: It is great to learn things everyday, no?

B

 

[Artie]

Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

Man, one look at the voltage divider equation will show you it will ...

500k-A pot set a 5 ... CW~W:450k; W~Ground:50k ...RT:500k

Voltage in 10V (why...it divides easy)... 10V(450k)/RT 500k= 9V which is the voltage DROP across the 450k ... 10V-9V= 1V ... 1V is 1/10 of 10V ... -20dB

Roughly half as loud (we are dealing with voltage not power or current).

500k-A pot set a 5 with 250K in series with the CCW lug to ground...
CW~W:450k; W~Ground: 750k (50k of pot in series with 250k resistor).

10V(450k)/RT 750k= 6V which again is the voltage drop across the 450k ... 10V-6V=4V ... 4V is 2/5 of 10V ... ~ -7.96dB ... not evenly remotely the same!

I think we accidently got on two separate tracks here, probably because of the way I posed my statement. What I meant was, that with the volume pots on zero, with my resistor mod, both volumes would be at halfway, regardless of whether they were audio taper or linear pots. At any pot setting other than zero, the taper will definitely be skewed one way or the other.

Kent; In regards to your last diagram for Dr. Barlo, am I correct that when he switches the 3-way to the middle position, (neck and bridge), that he'll have a considerable loss of treble? Due to both tone controls being connected in parallel? (I didn't notice anywhere that they might be no-load pots.)

idsnowdog; Did we ever actually answer your original question all the way. We kinda got two threads going at once here. :smack:

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

I think we accidently got on two separate tracks here, probably because of the way I posed my statement. What I meant was, that with the volume pots on zero, with my resistor mod, both volumes would be at halfway, regardless of whether they were audio taper or linear pots. At any pot setting other than zero, the taper will definitely be skewed one way or the other.

Kent; In regards to your last diagram for Dr. Barlo, am I correct that when he switches the 3-way to the middle position, (neck and bridge), that he'll have a considerable loss of treble? Due to both tone controls being connected in parallel? (I didn't notice anywhere that they might be no-load pots.)

idsnowdog; Did we ever actually answer your original question all the way. We kinda got two threads going at once here. :smack:

3 threads going on at the same time!

Anyways, no problems in the middle position, because then it will be the good old LP middle position. And both of the tones at 10, there won't be that much of a loss of highs even with non-no load pots. How do I know, well have been playing LPs with that kinda wiring for quite a while now, like 10 years! :saeek: I am getting old! fftopic:

B

 

[Artie]

Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

3 threads going on at the same time!

Anyways, no problems in the middle position, because then it will be the good old LP middle position. And both of the tones at 10, there won't be that much of a loss of highs even with non-no load pots. How do I know, well have been playing LPs with that kinda wiring for quite a while now, like 10 years! :saeek: I am getting old! fftopic:

B

Dadgummit . . . I keep forgetting that LP's have been wired this way for decades. :smack:

One of these days I'll learn that "guitar electronics" ain't exactly the same as F-14 electronics.

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

Dadgummit . . . I keep forgetting that LP's have been wired this way for decades. :smack:

One of these days I'll learn that "guitar electronics" ain't exactly the same as F-14 electronics.

:laugh2:

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

Hooray Finaly a post with some replies! What was my question?

Snowdog

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

Never thought about it,from a hum-cancelling standpoint that idea repulses me ... :saeek: That's more trouble than it's worth, but it could be done with the addition of a on/off/on SPDT or DPDT switch to disable either split.

That was in regard to the neck full/bridge split; neck split/bridge full combos ... my fingers got ahead of my mouth ... It would take an additional on/on/on DPDT switch to select either split active or both active. Still it's more trouble than it's worh in my opinion.

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

I think we accidently got on two separate tracks here, probably because of the way I posed my statement. What I meant was, that with the volume pots on zero, with my resistor mod, both volumes would be at halfway, regardless of whether they were audio taper or linear pots. At any pot setting other than zero, the taper will definitely be skewed one way or the other.

Kent; In regards to your last diagram for Dr. Barlo, am I correct that when he switches the 3-way to the middle position, (neck and bridge), that he'll have a considerable loss of treble? Due to both tone controls being connected in parallel? (I didn't notice anywhere that they might be no-load pots.)

I had an incredibly detailed and LONG answer to this, and lost it somehow ... *&^#$%@#$ ... Anyway, first the short answer is (using standard values) using a 47k ground shunt resistor with a 500k-A pot will give you about -23dB or so at 0 (a little less than half volume), the other route using a 220ktapering resistor between the CW and W to linear-ize th pot a bit (more subtle,better control of mixing the two pups) ... down side greater loading on the pups Res Fc Peak (although this may be desireable) ...third a combo of both with the ground shunt resistorvalue altered accordingly.
This problem with the first is that you lose the ability to kill the guitar if need be. Wiring one control conventional and the other alternative has merit also, as one will kill the signal if need be in the middle position. The master volume/attenuator setup (with either lifted ground or the inclusion of the ground shunt resistor) also has merit, as long as the *other volume pot* is not in the signal path when not selected.

The short answer to the second question is basiclly no, the impedance drops off so it pushes the filter cutoff Fc higher, the doubling of the cap values bring it back down to were is was. the better trick is to set up one pup with one value cap (say a .01uF for a woman tone thing) and the other for a deeper cut, (say .033uF ) this give the same combined (roughly) value, as well as allowing two different resonant peak shifts when both pups are selected (one tone turn off will sound different than the other tone turned off, and both turned off will be a bit darker still). With both value equal the difference between one tone knob down and two down will be about 6dB ...subtle but noticeable ... the RES Fc Peak will shift however ...this can only really be gotten around by active buffering, or damping the resonant peak and reassigning the shelf cut off Fc and attenuation levels. Like the G&L ASAT for example. That's the short answer.

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

3 threads going on at the same time!

B

Do I hear four threads ... sold! To the Doobie Brother in the plaid golf pants, striped shirt, polka dotted tie, and tie dye sneakers,wearing cheap sunglasses!

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

Dadgummit . . . I keep forgetting that LP's have been wired this way for decades. :smack:

One of these days I'll learn that "guitar electronics" ain't exactly the same as F-14 electronics.

Personally as much as I like the F-14 & 16's I feel if the world had more guitars and less of the others (although they would make cool sports cars, so to speak) we'd be better off ... Oh course this also reminds me of the saying *It does no good for the sheep to pass laws regarding vegetarianism, while the wolves remain of a different opinion ...*

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

Kent; In regards to your last diagram for Dr. Barlo, am I correct that when he switches the 3-way to the middle position, (neck and bridge), that he'll have a considerable loss of treble? Due to both tone controls being connected in parallel? (I didn't notice anywhere that they might be no-load pots.)

Also, please go back and reread my statement concerning this explanation to Barlo (somewhere toward the beginning of this thread) ... BTW ... the F-16's are going to be changed over to all tubes (metal cased mil-spec 6L6's and 6JS7's). :saeek: