Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- termate.

[Joe L]

As the subject says, I bought a '64 strat for $125 that had the finish aggressively removed with a sander. The body was at least a 1/4" reduced in thickness. Luckly, they were less aggressive with the neck which had a quite thick profile.

After I put a thin Poly finish on, I ended up with a nice playing guitar but the tone and sustain suffered from the dreaded double notes caused with strats that have pickups too close to the strings. I am an electronic tech so I understand the simple tech of magnetic pickups. I measured the pickups and all three showed continuity between the poles and the windings. Well... if you have a source driving an almost perfect short-the string being the source, on a guitar you will have low output and funky sustain!

So, the lesson here is that you can test an old pickup not only for resistance between +/- but between each magnet and "-".

..Joe L

 

[Adieu]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

Is that actually a thing? Not sure about singles, but humbuckers with metal bassplates should always have connectivity between polepieces and leads, no?


For starters, why not lower the pickups?

Btw, unmolested 64 Fenders cost like $12 - 15k, so for $125... why the hell not

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

Ideally on a singlecoil - even an old one - there should be no reading from the poles. AFAIK connectivity between the pole magnets and the winding wires means the insulation on the windings is somewhat compromised. This sometimes happens if people try to adjust the pole height on vintage singlecoils where the windings are in direct contact with the magnets, and sometimes on older pickups the insulation just decays or corrodes. I believe some of the '64 Strat pickups still used the 50s style Formvar insulation rather than the later poly wire.

That doesn't necessarily mean the pickups are ruined - Roy Buchanan played his Tele for many years with a short in the bridge pickup. But if there's an electrical connection to the rod mags it means the windings are in poor shape and could eventually break, worst case scenario for this is a dead pickup. A lot of vintage Fender pickups have died over the decades.

Now I have half a mind to pull my '63 Strat out and check the pole mags for connectivity. I dread anything going wrong with those; they're the best sounding Strat pickups I've ever played.

 

[Joe L]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

eclecticsynergy, if you axe sounds good, don't even check the pickups! What I experienced was like a muted sustain unless I dropped the pickups way down to the pickguard. And the shorted pickup windings was like a power transformer with shorted windings. The math says that a shorted winding is an infinite load.

..Joe L

 

[Joe L]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

No Adieu. the coils should be completely insulated.

..Joe L

 

[Joe L]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

I was just surprised that all three of my pickups had this problem and posted this to see it anyone else had this problem. I actually haven't used those pickups since the mid '70s and was just curious if anyone else had experienced this.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- termate.

What happened here is the insulation broke down on the wire and they electrically shorted to the magnets.

This is a bad situation. Because the start of the coil is connected to ground, the magnets are probably close to ground potential. So at least in this case they won’t buzz when you touch them.

But at some point the wire will corrode (aluminum touching copper) all the way and the pickup will be dead.


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[jeremy]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

yep, the end is coming and there isnt much you can do to stop it

 

[Adieu]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

Disassemble, pull polepieces, paint with non-conductive paint, reassemble?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

sure, its only 8500 turns of old wire

 

[Adieu]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

sure, its only 8500 turns of old wire

? I'm fairly sure that single coil polepieces can be extracted, I've seen it done on some video & the pickup survived the procedure...wasn't paying attention, but there's gotta be instructions somewhere

 

[Jacew]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

? I'm fairly sure that single coil polepieces can be extracted, I've seen it done on some video & the pickup survived the procedure...wasn't paying attention, but there's gotta be instructions somewhere

Wire in those pickups is wound around magnet. Even if you somehow get the magnet out without breaking the old wire, there is no way you can get it back.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

right. on modern plastic bobbins its fine. on an old pup, especially one thats already compromised thats foolish

 

[Adieu]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

Wire in those pickups is wound around magnet. Even if you somehow get the magnet out without breaking the old wire, there is no way you can get it back.

Press out, shield with something, reinsert and glue to bobbins?

 

[AlexR]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

Some people can visualise mechanical situations.......others can't, or are simply too emotionally invested in the advice they have given to be able to step back and accept it wasn't so good.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

What's the overall resistance on the pickup measure at? I feel like if the magnets are shorting with an uninsulated wire, that wire is also creating shorts galore elsewhere. Guess it doesn't matter- That knowledge would only more solidly establish the pickup not being repairable, even if you can eject the magnets.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

Press out, shield with something, reinsert and glue to bobbins?

What bobbins? There is no bobbin in vintage Strat pickups. The wire is wound around the magnets directly, and in this case, the insulation of that wire has been compromised. Sliding 6 magnets in and out will more likely destroy the pickup for good.

 

[Adieu]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

What bobbins? There is no bobbin in vintage Strat pickups. The wire is wound around the magnets directly, and in this case, the insulation of that wire has been compromised. Sliding 6 magnets in and out will more likely destroy the pickup for good.

Whatever those pieces of fibreboard I posted a pic of are called... are the polepiece mags polished on the sides as depicted, or just the top protrusion?

Anyways, it's not like there's other options... if it works it works, if it doesnt, copy the wind with original mags and new wire.

Well...you COULD also perhaps remove/destroy the top piece of fibre, wiggle the mags a bit and spray/drip an insulation paint into the gaps where the mags would normally contact the wind

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

The mojo is in the magnets, so it is rewind time.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Original '64 Strat pickups that show connectivity between every pole and +/- term

A decent winder will take measurements from all aspects of the wind of a pickup in an attempt to do the best job of replicating it (for future clients too if it can be made into a set). In that way you would never in any rational way of thinking try moving poles out and then in as some idea of a hair-brained experiment, that would pretty much make an accurate rewind impossible.