P90 size humbucker.
- Thread starter BlueSnMettle
- Start date
Re: P90 size humbucker.
Of course, the tones are so different that there has to be some apples and oranges going on... But I've always imagined there is some grouping taking place in that 5 to 7 range since minis, p90s and fbirds see approximately the same amount of string.
Back to this build, I look to minis for fuller range, p90s for mid-range drive and fbirds for more high end and bite.
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Yep, I generally agree on your order of 'tightness' although I would put humbuckers in general at 1, minis at 5, p90s at 6, Firebirds at 7 and strats at 9...
Of course, the tones are so different that there has to be some apples and oranges going on... But I've always imagined there is some grouping taking place in that 5 to 7 range since minis, p90s and fbirds see approximately the same amount of string.
Back to this build, I look to minis for fuller range, p90s for mid-range drive and fbirds for more high end and bite.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: P90 size humbucker.
You evoke here a complex question... Yes, the sensitivity of P90's is focused by their pole pieces. On the other hand, the two bar mags underneath create a very diffuse magnetic field.
If memory serves me, David @ Zhangbucker pickups attributes to that the "big" sound of P90's. I tend to agree with him when I remember what happens with a single mag in a P90 - in which case the inductance is hardly lower but the sound gets a lot thinner.
Food for thought: http://www.moore.org.au/pick/06/06_gobd.htm
The thing with a mini (Epiphone/Gibson style and not Firebird) is how its single row of tiny screw poles don't protude above its cover: because of that, Eddy currents due to the cover affect the high range much more than with a standard humbucker.
BUT a "normal" mini in itself (cover aside) is inherently brighter than a full size humbucker. In fact, it has the same inductance than a Telecaster bridge pickup. An interesting experiment would be to fit a mini with a plastic cover and to listen what happens...
Regarding P90's: ironically, they have the same kind of "mid boosting" high inductance than "hot" pickups like Duncan JB's or DiMarzio Super Dist. In my understanding, what makes P90's apparently brighter is a paradoxical conjunction: the alliance of their higher "Q factor" of single coils, creating a more focused resonant peak, with their diffuse mag field, broadening their sensitivity. But if we lower this resonant peak (thanks to low resistance pots or simply by lowering the tone control), P90's are able to sound beefier than P.A.F. style humbuckers because they have inherently "more mids".
Firebird PU's: normal ones have roughly the same inductance than a Strat pickup, so, yep, they sound close - despite of high frequencies dampening Eddy currents due to covers, once again...
You evoke here a complex question... Yes, the sensitivity of P90's is focused by their pole pieces. On the other hand, the two bar mags underneath create a very diffuse magnetic field.
If memory serves me, David @ Zhangbucker pickups attributes to that the "big" sound of P90's. I tend to agree with him when I remember what happens with a single mag in a P90 - in which case the inductance is hardly lower but the sound gets a lot thinner.
Food for thought: http://www.moore.org.au/pick/06/06_gobd.htm
The thing with a mini (Epiphone/Gibson style and not Firebird) is how its single row of tiny screw poles don't protude above its cover: because of that, Eddy currents due to the cover affect the high range much more than with a standard humbucker.
BUT a "normal" mini in itself (cover aside) is inherently brighter than a full size humbucker. In fact, it has the same inductance than a Telecaster bridge pickup. An interesting experiment would be to fit a mini with a plastic cover and to listen what happens...
Regarding P90's: ironically, they have the same kind of "mid boosting" high inductance than "hot" pickups like Duncan JB's or DiMarzio Super Dist. In my understanding, what makes P90's apparently brighter is a paradoxical conjunction: the alliance of their higher "Q factor" of single coils, creating a more focused resonant peak, with their diffuse mag field, broadening their sensitivity. But if we lower this resonant peak (thanks to low resistance pots or simply by lowering the tone control), P90's are able to sound beefier than P.A.F. style humbuckers because they have inherently "more mids".
Firebird PU's: normal ones have roughly the same inductance than a Strat pickup, so, yep, they sound close - despite of high frequencies dampening Eddy currents due to covers, once again...
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Re: P90 size humbucker.
And great analysis of mini sized pups... The more that I learn, the more that I realize that the categories I have created from past experience may help me make general choices, however, the underlying physics is never so easy.
Great input, much thanks.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Wow Freefrog, that article blows my mind. Math in the first half is out if my league, but the field diagrams are major food for thought.
And great analysis of mini sized pups... The more that I learn, the more that I realize that the categories I have created from past experience may help me make general choices, however, the underlying physics is never so easy.
Great input, much thanks.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: P90 size humbucker.
You're welcome. It's always a pleasure for me to share my humble findings with our community.
Yep,these questions of magnetic field are mind blowing. But even Albert Einstein was puzzled by the mystery of magnetism so it's not as if such things were easy for us...
Let's enjoy with guitar pickups and our experience with them - which is the only valuable, since it's OUR experience!
You're welcome. It's always a pleasure for me to share my humble findings with our community.
Yep,these questions of magnetic field are mind blowing. But even Albert Einstein was puzzled by the mystery of magnetism so it's not as if such things were easy for us...
Let's enjoy with guitar pickups and our experience with them - which is the only valuable, since it's OUR experience!
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: P90 size humbucker.
Let's get down to the nitty gritty -- are we trying to get a classic P90 sound minus the hum? Or just anything less dull than a stack?
Let's get down to the nitty gritty -- are we trying to get a classic P90 sound minus the hum? Or just anything less dull than a stack?
BlueSnMettle
Michaelewski
Re: P90 size humbucker.
A humbucker that is the size of a P90. The P90 stacks that are in the guitar lack an openness. I had a similar guitar that had Seymour's Hot P90s and dug those, except for the hum. I would love a Seth the size of a P90. Zhang offers some P90 sized buckers. Those may be an answer.
A humbucker that is the size of a P90. The P90 stacks that are in the guitar lack an openness. I had a similar guitar that had Seymour's Hot P90s and dug those, except for the hum. I would love a Seth the size of a P90. Zhang offers some P90 sized buckers. Those may be an answer.
STLMTLHD79
Active member
Re: P90 size humbucker.
I actually just bought a used pair of Duncan P90s to replace these awful Dimarzio Super Distortion soapbars in a les paul. Cant wait till they come and install them!
I actually just bought a used pair of Duncan P90s to replace these awful Dimarzio Super Distortion soapbars in a les paul. Cant wait till they come and install them!
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: P90 size humbucker.
It is possible to take humbucker bobbins (and their magnet and spacers) and mount them on a soapbar baseplate. Have to do a little drilling, and the two ends wouldn't be all that aesthetically pleasing but it would work.
It is possible to take humbucker bobbins (and their magnet and spacers) and mount them on a soapbar baseplate. Have to do a little drilling, and the two ends wouldn't be all that aesthetically pleasing but it would work.
