Peavey Windsor

[GilmourD]

Re: Peavey Windsor

I think in the future, I'm gonna just avoid threads that turn into this. For some reason, I always get caught up in this stuff. Maybe I need to stop coming here...

No, please stick around. Just put me on speed dial for when you think things are getting out of hand. I'll swoop in and take care of stuff. Just let us know what's going on.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Peavey Windsor

BTW, Edgecrusher... Since you've been inside this bad boy... I read somewhere that the Windsor does not actually have a cathode follower but instead feeds the tone stack off of the plate of the final gain stage. Now, I know that CFs are used because you lose less feeding the tone stack off the cathode... Maybe you could explain that better than me, though... I'm rusty with my tube amp theory.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Peavey Windsor

Yeah the PI on those is actually different from the cathode follower in a marshall. Its called a cathodyne phase inverter. The best way to explain it is it has higher current with less gain (keep in mind gain isnt clipping in this sense) so the signal into the power tubes is higher current but less volume. Think of it like volts vs amps. What this means in terms of practicality is that you can get power amp clipping sooner cause you are driving the output tubes harder but with less sound volume cause the volume of current is less. But this is also partially it gets fuzzy when it gets up loud.

Did i type that clearly or fubar it?

The Windsor is not a JCM800 clone at all... Actually in terms of layout its very different. This does have an effect on the sound. The windsor has a gain stage that the 800 doesnt have ( guess i should clarify 2203/2204 800's i mean)

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Peavey Windsor

Actually thinking about it it all sorta makes sense. Using that style of a PI is a bit synthetic. Yes you get power tube clipping easier from it but that's not the only thing that happens when you crank up an amp. Another large effect is the output transformer becomes saturated and starts to compress because it can't give anymore current. Now if you are trying to design an amp that pushes into power tube distortion easier, you might decide that you also want to use a power transformer that similarly is easy to push into overdrive. While it's all guess work it's not s great leap to see that maybe the choice of a smaller less robust transformer for lower volume crunch is part of the design

I dunno I might be high but there is possibly a logic here....

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Peavey Windsor

I'll bet you're right.

I didn't realize they were that much different, but I've wondered why they didn't just reissue the Butcher or reuse the PCB designs, that were actual JCM ripoffs. Just a few component changes (minus the power section) and you're there.

EC, I'm gonna send you a PM later, maybe you can help me. I'm planning to install a choke and replace the 100 ohm screen grids, I'm needing to know what resistor I need to use for bias afterward (planning to keep the cooler fixed bias, I know, but I like easy).

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Peavey Windsor

I'll bet you're right.

I didn't realize they were that much different, but I've wondered why they didn't just reissue the Butcher or reuse the PCB designs, that were actual JCM ripoffs. Just a few component changes (minus the power section) and you're there.

EC, I'm gonna send you a PM later, maybe you can help me. I'm planning to install a choke and replace the 100 ohm screen grids, I'm needing to know what resistor I need to use for bias afterward (planning to keep the cooler fixed bias, I know, but I like easy).

Yeah its kinda surprising actually. The butchers preamp is dead lifted from a JCM. Its like reinventing the wheel.

Gonna add a choke to your 5150?

Right on PM me, its 1:30 in the morning for me here so im gonna crash but ill get back to you in the morning on it.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Peavey Windsor

Those are some ****ty looking pots, won't see that crap in a US made Peavey. Plastic jacks look kinda rickety too.

Seriously though, stop.

And hey, EP, not all of us can spend 10 G's on amps.

I just did the math and you are over-estimating my investment by more than 50% but I am flattered nonetheless. :smokin:

There are at least two Orange Overdrives for fair prices online right now... Laney AOR's are still in the $300-$500 range... I'll sell my Sunn T50C for $666 right now. You can have good tone and quality construction for just a little more than twice what it costs to get a Windsor.

 

[vivanchenko]

Re: Peavey Windsor

And speaking of components - I read that a guy installed a Hammond JCM 800 replacement output transformer in his Windsor and after this his amp still sounded the same. That's saying something about components. So, Windsor owners, don't waste your money on upgrade transformers - just play the thing.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Peavey Windsor

And speaking of components - I read that a guy installed a Hammond JCM 800 replacement output transformer in his Windsor and after this his amp still sounded the same. That's saying something about components. So, Windsor owners, don't waste your money on upgrade transformers - just play the thing.

I think Edgecrusher's entire point was about longevity, not tone.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Peavey Windsor

And speaking of components - I read that a guy installed a Hammond JCM 800 replacement output transformer in his Windsor and after this his amp still sounded the same. That's saying something about components. So, Windsor owners, don't waste your money on upgrade transformers - just play the thing.

You read it so it must be true? I guess all the stories of other people upgrading transformers in amps and hearing a change or improvement are false?

I know you wont answer but iam going to ask anyways, Do you just make stuff up? If parts didnt matter companies wouldnt bother they just use whatever they could.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Peavey Windsor

And speaking of components - I read that a guy installed a Hammond JCM 800 replacement output transformer in his Windsor and after this his amp still sounded the same. That's saying something about components. So, Windsor owners, don't waste your money on upgrade transformers - just play the thing.

If you said an old Drake transformer I'd be impressed. The original is probably just a Hammond to begin with. Hammond builds solid stuff but it's built as inexpensively as possible to just do the job. And, no, I don't think Mercury Magnetics stuff is worth the money. They're good, but you can get the same type of transformer from other places like Heyboer for less money.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Peavey Windsor

If you said an old Drake transformer I'd be impressed. The original is probably just a Hammond to begin with. Hammond builds solid stuff but it's built as inexpensively as possible to just do the job. And, no, I don't think Mercury Magnetics stuff is worth the money. They're good, but you can get the same type of transformer from other places like Heyboer for less money.

Not sure about now but i know at least through the JCM900 era drake transformers were stock in all 50 watters. Dagnall was used for the 100 watters. Though the style of transformer changed from the stand up type used in the 800's and earlier to the lay down type used in the jcm900's (and yes sometimes you find 100 watter with drakes and vice versa but this was never the rule, was only done if there was a supply problem of they were given free samples)


But your right about the hammond it wouldnt be anything to write home about. I dont know of anyone who could consider it an "upgrade" But at the same time I would expect the sound to change somewhat... even if negatively. Though i question the veracity of the information. It very much sounds like a "well i read on the interent" story

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Peavey Windsor

Not sure about now but i know at least through the JCM900 era drake transformers were stock in all 50 watters. Dagnall was used for the 100 watters. Though the style of transformer changed from the stand up type used in the 800's and earlier to the lay down type used in the jcm900's (and yes sometimes you find 100 watter with drakes and vice versa but this was never the rule, was only done if there was a supply problem of they were given free samples)


But your right about the hammond it wouldnt be anything to write home about. I dont know of anyone who could consider it an "upgrade" But at the same time I would expect the sound to change somewhat... even if negatively. Though i question the veracity of the information. It very much sounds like a "well i read on the interent" story

Dagnall... That's what the lack of caffeine kept me from remembering. LOL

I can't knock Hammond. They DO make some quality stuff and I've heard some pretty good sounding amps built with them. However, for the most part, they're not the old paper interleaved, blah blah blah, vintage spec, blah blah blah transformers. They're modern transformers, probably on par with what comes in current modern amps. But they don't perform the same way that the transformers everybody wants perform. That's not necessarily a bad thing, depending on what you're looking for.

I'm eyeballing this as a future upgrade for my Bugera since it's a bolt-on part, it's not obscenely expensive, and it's close in spec and build to what came in the 12xxx series Marshall 1959 back in '68 and a lot of Marshall cloners seem to like it for that.

http://www.classictone.net/40-18026.html

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Peavey Windsor

Dagnall... That's what the lack of caffeine kept me from remembering. LOL

I can't knock Hammond. They DO make some quality stuff and I've heard some pretty good sounding amps built with them. However, for the most part, they're not the old paper interleaved, blah blah blah, vintage spec, blah blah blah transformers. They're modern transformers, probably on par with what comes in current modern amps. But they don't perform the same way that the transformers everybody wants perform. That's not necessarily a bad thing, depending on what you're looking for.

I'm eyeballing this as a future upgrade for my Bugera since it's a bolt-on part, it's not obscenely expensive, and it's close in spec and build to what came in the 12xxx series Marshall 1959 back in '68 and a lot of Marshall cloners seem to like it for that.

http://www.classictone.net/40-18026.html

Everytime you guys say transformers, I think Optimus Prime.

 

[vivanchenko]

Re: Peavey Windsor

What this had to do with Edgecrusher?

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Peavey Windsor

Everytime you guys say transformers, I think Optimus Prime.

It's very hard talking about this stuff around my 5-year-old because he's obsessed with Transformers Rescue Bots (which, BTW, is actually entertaining for adults). LOL

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Peavey Windsor

It's very hard talking about this stuff around my 5-year-old because he's obsessed with Transformers Rescue Bots (which, BTW, is actually entertaining for adults). LOL

Let's build put an Autobot in an amplifier.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Peavey Windsor

Let's build put an Autobot in an amplifier.

"Put some Energon in your tone!" LOL

The Windsor would be like the post-"The Movie" plastic toys that were fun to play with but didn't last as long, while something like an old Marshall 2203 would be like my all-metal Optimus Prime that the hands are missing from (which would be like missing knobs).

 

[vivanchenko]

Re: Peavey Windsor

Edgecrusher - sounds like a good name for a transformer

By the way, I liked what he said about cathodyne PI. This is exactly what my take on it is. Using 12AU7 for PI makes it much easier to get that powers amp distortion at manageable volumes. Power amp distortion is the name of the game for this amp. I believe that this is exactly what Peavey was after when they were designing it.

 

[vivanchenko]

Re: Peavey Windsor

The point of Marshall's LTP phase inverter was getting more clean headroom for which I personally don't care.