Phase flipping

[ThreeChordWonder]

I know how to wire a push pull to phase flip a pickup. That's easy.

I'm thinking about wiring my Flying V build with three push pulls. Two will be coil splits. That's for definite. The third I'm thinking either a full phase flip or a half-out-of-phase (HOOP) by putting a cap in the line.

My questions are:

1. should one phase flip the bridge or the neck, in a two pickup setup?
2. What value for the HOOP cap? It just goes in series between the hot wire and the volume pot, right?

Thanks in advance.

 

[PFDarkside]

For #1, they will function the same. Do you have a VVT setup? I find out of phase is much more useful when you bring one volume or the other back a touch, it reduces the phase cancelling.

 

[dystrust]

A coil cut only needs one side of a push-pull pot, so why not use a single pot to split both pickups? That would allow the 3rd pot to be used to put both pickups in series for example. I have two guitars with both a series switch and a phase switch (LP & SG), and honestly I use the series switch more.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I'd probably prefer to have one push-pull to split both pickups, another for phase, and the third for a bass cut cap.
Series sounds like a cool option, but my only experience with hums in series is series-OOP on my oldest PRS.

With standard Vee wiring (two volumes), you can still get bass cut on both pickups by putting it between pickup selector and output.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Thanks for your opinions guys, but back to my questions..

 

[dystrust]

Series sounds like a cool option, but my only experience with hums in series is series-OOP on my oldest PRS.

On both my Les Paul & SG, I tend to use the series switch with both pickups split. It provides a similar tone to both split, but at about the same volume as the neck pickup by itself (non-split). It's also sounds pretty good when combined with the phase switch, similar to your old PRS. I don't find the series switch terribly useful by itself.

1. should one phase flip the bridge or the neck, in a two pickup setup?

A phase switch in conjunction with the coil cut lets you select which coil is active. With just the coil cut active, you're hearing the slug coil if you used typical SD wiring. If you then hit the phase switch, you're hearing the screw coil wired backwards. It'll be out of phase if combined with the other pickup, but using the phase-switched pickup alone lets you pick which coil you want to hear. I wire mine on the bridge pickup because the greater proximity to the bridge means that there's more difference between the screw and slug coils than with a neck position humbucker.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

The plan is to wire the thing with 2 independent volumes, like all my 2 pickup 2 volume guitars, and a master tone..

I plan to coil split in favor of both slug coils, if not phase flipping, per the usual SD plan.

So if I phase flip one pickup, it'll either be both coils flipped in full humbucker mode, and yes, only the screw coil active, and flipped, when I coil split the flipped pickup.

Regular Phase:

Full humbucker mode:

Regular black is hot, green is ground, red and white connected to each other but not to ground.

Coil split Mode:

Black is still both, white us grounded, so slug coil is active. Red and green are both grounded so the screw coil is inactive.

Phase Flipped:

Full humbucker mode:

Green becomes hot, black becomes ground, red and white connected to each other, but not grouneed, so both coils are active but phase flipped.

Coil Split Mode:

Green is still hot.. Red gets grounded, so the screw coil is active. The bllack and white are both connected to ground.so the slug coil is inactive.

 

[dystrust]

I plan to coil split in favor of both slug coils, if not phase flipping, per the usual SD plan.

...

Regular Phase:

Coil split Mode:

Black is still both, white us grounded, so slug coil is active. Red and green are both grounded so the screw coil is inactive.

If you connect the red/white of the neck pickup to the volume pot input (instead of grounding it), you'll have red hot, green grounded, and black/white will be shorted to each other so the screw coil will be active instead of the slug coil. If you wire your splits this way, middle position with both split will hum-cancel. I've been wiring all of my 2H guitars with splits this way since I figured it out a few years ago.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

If you connect the red/white of the neck pickup to the volume pot input (instead of grounding it), you'll have red hot, green grounded, and black/white will be shorted to each other so the screw coil will be active instead of the slug coil. If you wire your splits this way, middle position with both split will hum-cancel. I've been wiring all of my 2H guitars with splits this way since I figured it out a few years ago.

Let me get this straight. Let's suppose, for argument's sake, the bridge pickup is coil split the normal way, leaving the slug (north) coil active when coil split. The following mod applies, for argument's sake, to the neck pickup.

Black goes to the volume pot input lug, green goes to ground as normal, correct?

Red and white go to the middle or common lug on the push pull as normal, correct? In push (full humbucker) they're not connected to anything (except each other).

In pull, instead of connecting both red and white to ground, you connect them to the input lug of the volume pot. That indeed makes the red the hot and the green remains the ground, so the screw coil remains active, and so would be hum canceling with a coil split, that I get.

But...

The black is still connected to the volume pot input lug, and so too, now, is the white. So I suppose that means both ends of the slug coil are "hot" making the slug coil inactive.

Wouldn't it be better to do this?

On one set of three of the push-pull contacts connect the black to one middle or common lug. In push, wire that to the volume pot input lug. In pull the black goes to ground or can just be left hanging.

On the other set of three wire the red to a middle or common contact. Wire the white to the push contact, so in push the red and white are connected and you get the full humbucker. In pull jump the red to the volume pot input lug.

The idea here is to ground at least one end of the inactive coil and to disconnect the inactive coil from the volume pot input.

 

[dystrust]

Wouldn't it be better to do this?

On one set of three of the push-pull contacts connect the black to one middle or common lug. In push, wire that to the volume pot input lug. In pull the black goes to ground or can just be left hanging.

I can't wrap my head around how this would work. For series in-phase, you need black connected to the volume pot input and green grounded, with red and white connected. You're good in the push position, but the pull position grounds black without connecting anything to the volume pot. If you're trying to get the slug coil in-phase, you need to connect the white wire to ground.

On the other set of three wire the red to a middle or common contact. Wire the white to the push contact, so in push the red and white are connected and you get the full humbucker. In pull jump the red to the volume pot input lug.

The idea here is to ground at least one end of the inactive coil and to disconnect the inactive coil from the volume pot input.

This is essentially the same as what I do, with the exception that the white wire is left floating instead of being shorted.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Oh, it's all got too complicated...

I think I'm just going to wire it with two regular coil splits and a phase flip for the neck.

 

[dystrust]

Oh, it's all got too complicated...

If a diagram helps, I used this one for my Explorer:

The top pickup in the diagram splits to the slug coil, while the bottom one splits to the screw coil.

Here's the diagram I used to add the series and phase switches to my SG.

The guitar has Triple Shot rings, so there's no coil cut switch and the black wire is ground while the white is hot. For your intended outcome, you'd need to repurpose the third pot to split both pickups.

If you're interested, I could make a 2V/1T version of the diagram that incorporates all 3 push-pulls.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Let me think about it....

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

The push-pulls to split the coils individually I'm fine with, I'm trying to figure out how to put a third p-p on the tone pot to phase flip the bridge. I've only got three knobs to play with and I'm not really interested in series / parallel options (either coils internal to one humbucker or both humbuckers as a whole).
I'm drawing something up and will post it later.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

I think I figured it out. See below. I've left out all the usual grounds, treble bleeds, the toggle switch and the output jack. The volumes will be wired for independent volumes, so the "ins" go to the pot middle lugs and the "outs" to the toggle switch are wired to the left outer lugs as drawn.

Neck Humbucker

The neck humbucker push-pull coil splits to the screw coil, and does not phase flip.

Black is hot, green is a permanent ground.

Red is joined to the middle / common lug on one side of the push pull. In push it connects to white, so the humbucker works as a regular humbucker.

In pull the red connects to the input lug (middle because I'm wiring for independent volumes) and the white is left hanging.

The black goes to the common lug on the other side of the push-pull. In push it goes to the volume pot input lug, in pull it goes to ground, so one end of the deactivated coil ast least is grounded. The arrangement leaves the south (screw coil) active in the coil split, which will be hum canceling with the bridge slug coil if that's split too, not phase flipped.

Thanks to dystrust for that suggestion.

Bridge Humbucker

The bridge humbucker is wired a bit differently.

The green and black go first to a push pull on the tone pot, which is wired the normal way for a phase flip. In push black remains hot, green remains ground, but phase flipped the opposite applies. I can phase flip the bridge whether coil split or not.

The red and white wires go to a common lug on the push pull. In push they are left hanging, but connected to each other, so the humbucker works like a regular humbucker, phase flipped or not. In pull they are both grounded. That means with the phase flip not flipped, the humbucker coil splits the usual way, leaving the north (slug) coil active. The black is still the hot, and the white is the slug coil ground. The red and green are both grounded, leaving the screw coil inactive.

When phase flipped and coil split, however, this happens. The black becomes the ground and the green becomes the hot. The red and white in pull on the volume pot get grounded just the same. But now, the green is the hot instead of the ground, and the red is grounded instead of going to the volume pot input lug, so now the screw coil works and is phase flipped.

Hope I'm right... Please point out any cock-ups:beerchug: