POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

In the right hands, Strats can sound wonderful. Unfortunately most Strat owners don't understand how to get a good tone, that it takes a little extra effort. You sound like one of the minority, one of the guys that know what they're doing. I wish more players did. A couple of Leo's blunders, no tone pot on the bridge and the bridge PU slanted the wrong way, haven't helped matters any. So many guys buy a Strat "because everyone else has one" and then subject audiences to an ear-piercing onslaught of treble. And maybe Strats just are more versatile than Gibsons, but you'd never know it listening to the average knucklehead in the local bar (and even some on CD). Strats aren't something you can put into the hands of millions and expect the majority to come up with something that sounds nice. Some guys will figure it out, but most will have the neighborhood dogs howling.

All of my strats have tone control for the bridge pickup....Again you haven't sold me on the tinny sounding guitar thing....If you know how to eq your setup and have decent gear to work with,this isn't an issue...To me the LP/SG configuration is more of a one trick pony and that guitar doesn't give me the tonal nuances and versatility of a strat...There's a reason a strat is so popular....Next I Like my SG and then a Tele....The upper register reach above the 15th fret sucks on a LP also and it's heavy hanging on my shoulder at a 4 hour gig...You also aren't mentioning the fact that a strat is twangier or treblier because it has a longer scale length and more overall string tension...If I play my Love Rock or my SG with .010s,I can bend the strings alot easier than I can with the same strings on any of my strats...

I find the strat also lends to more note articulation when using overdrive/distortion....Anything hotter wound than a PAF type humbucker tends to get muddy and lost in the mix of our band...

I Love all the guitars I Own and this is just one's opinion...

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

^not having a tone pot on the bridge of a Strat is a PITA...and punishable by death in some places haha!

tc

A simple mod to change...That was 50's mentality when Fender did that...Only the reissue stuff lacks the bridge tone control...I Like the Delta Tone system alot..

 

[Mincer]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

A funny story I heard from Sterling Ball, the son of Ernie Ball at a clinic- he said that Leo Fender was essentially deaf, and worked hard to keep the high end in his pickups - he had to put his ears right up against the amps and guitars to hear them at all- lots of people told him they were too bright sounding, but he was stubborn and cantankerous, so he kept it the way he heard it.
I never had a problem with Strats being bright, but I rarely use the bridge pickup on mine.

 

[blueman335]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

All To me the LP/SG configuration is more of a one trick pony and that guitar doesn't give me the tonal nuances and versatility of a strat...You also aren't mentioning the fact that a strat is twangier or treblier because it has a longer scale length and more overall string tension...If I play my Love Rock or my SG with .010s,I can bend the strings alot easier than I can with the same strings on any of my strats...

I find the strat also lends to more note articulation when using overdrive/distortion....Anything hotter wound than a PAF type humbucker tends to get muddy and lost in the mix of our band.

SC's do have an advantage as far as staying cleaner with distortion, but this isn't an issue with some players (like me) that only use a modest amount of overdrive.

An advantage to a short scale length is less string tension and easier bending, which is a large part of my style. I can use 9's, get a warm tone with them (with HB's), and have total control for deep, sustained bends & vibrato. And I don't have to tune down a half-step to do it (which is a pain if you're playing with guys in standard tuning; you can't tell what they're playing by looking at their hands).

Since they're mid-range focused, HB's don't have all the subtle nuances of a SC, but then we don't have to pound on our guitars to be heard, like Strat players are prone to doing. Another advantage to the Gibson/HB route is that you have a lot more PU options with coil cut, coil swap, parallel, and series, which translates to versatility, although different from how a Strat achieves it. We have 4 coils to mix and match. Speaking of tonal variety, we also can swap magnets in our HB's & P-90's and create new PU's in minutes, something traditional Strat players can only dream of.

As with everything in life, it's all compromises. You get one thing, but have to give up something else. Gibson designs have all the versatility & flexibility some of us would ever want. We can't copy pure Strat tones, but we got over that 'disappoinment' pretty quickly. An LP or SG with the Jimmy Page system ain't no "one trick pony." I can't see a triple SC Strat competing with them for tonal variety.

 

[blueman335]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

A funny story I heard from Sterling Ball, the son of Ernie Ball at a clinic- he said that Leo Fender was essentially deaf, and worked hard to keep the high end in his pickups - he had to put his ears right up against the amps and guitars to hear them at all- lots of people told him they were too bright sounding, but he was stubborn and cantankerous, so he kept it the way he heard it.
I never had a problem with Strats being bright, but I rarely use the bridge pickup on mine.

+1. All the local players I know with Strats, never use their bridge SC's, because they're like nails on a chalkboard. Many triple SC Strats are effectively two PU guitars.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

Hoyer FoldAxe.

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

I voted LP.

The switching options open up so much more.

Without channel switching or pedals with a guitar without similar switching options you're relegated to fast volume changes with one knob.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

SC's do have an advantage as far as staying cleaner with distortion, but this isn't an issue with some players (like me) that only use a modest amount of overdrive.

An advantage to a short scale length is less string tension and easier bending, which is a large part of my style. I can use 9's, get a warm tone with them (with HB's), and have total control for deep, sustained bends & vibrato. And I don't have to tune down a half-step to do it (which is a pain if you're playing with guys in standard tuning; you can't tell what they're playing by looking at their hands).

Since they're mid-range focused, HB's don't have all the subtle nuances of a SC, but then we don't have to pound on our guitars to be heard, like Strat players are prone to doing. Another advantage to the Gibson/HB route is that you have a lot more PU options with coil cut, coil swap, parallel, and series, which translates to versatility, although different from how a Strat achieves it. We have 4 coils to mix and match. Speaking of tonal variety, we also can swap magnets in our HB's & P-90's and create new PU's in minutes, something traditional Strat players can only dream of.

As with everything in life, it's all compromises. You get one thing, but have to give up something else. Gibson designs have all the versatility & flexibility some of us would ever want. We can't copy pure Strat tones, but we got over that 'disappoinment' pretty quickly. An LP or SG with the Jimmy Page system ain't no "one trick pony." I can't see a triple SC Strat competing with them for tonal variety.

I'm a classic rock/blues player myself and for me a JCM 800 is alot of overdrive for me also.My clean tones are based around the BF Fender and my overdriven tones are early Marshall and a Vox AC 30 tone.I also don't need to hide behind alot of gain and prefer to hear the notes and not a strum full of mud when I play(I also stay with lower output,vintage wound pickups for the most part)..Like I said,I do own and play the LP/SG and I even have 1 strat that has a bridge humbucker...They all serve a purpose...What I was really trying to get across was,that (for me) a strat is king of versatility..If our band only did Cream stuff all night or certain trypes of songs that work/sound better with the LP/SG,I'd be using that setup...I find I can cover clean and mean and everything in between with a strat....If the bridge pickup is bright,that's what the tone control on the guitar is for....Or I can fix that through my amp/effects etc...I can get alot closer getting the strat to do a "sought of" humbucker type tone,but I can not get a LP or the SG to do the stuff the strat does,plus I Like the #2 and #4 positions on a strat...On a LP or an SG,I pretty much use bridge or neck and I use Seth Lovers in one guitar...The SG has a bridge Brobucker and a PAF style neck pickup...

I Love the tone,warmth and sustain of a Gibson/Mahagony bodied guitar,but I'm just more comfy and like the strat better overall...I'm not really dissing the Gibson product in anyway...

Some nights I've played my SG for the entire gig...The LP I'm just not as comfy on and I have short fingers... ;o) The SG is comfy and great and a nice in between of the LP and a strat....P90 pickups are a nice middle ground also...

I don't use anything lighter than .010s on all of my guitars and we always play in standard tuning....Bending and getting around on either scaled instrument isn't a problem for me,though I have to watch myself upon playing the shorter scaled guitars,or I bend and intonate a bit sharp...

This isn't a debate really and it's a good thing we have so much stuff available to us...What a boring music world it would be if we just had strats and Les Pauls....Whatever works for someone is what works....Both of us have very valid examples and speak from experience...Our band covers alot of different styles and eras of music...Sometimes I actually will grab my LP or the SG for "White Room" or some early Sabbath songs....Just depends on what works and what I feel like playing that night? Some gigs I'll bring just 2 strats...Other nights I bring strat and my SG,or I'll bring a Tele along...1 guitar out of however many I bring to every gig though,will be a strat...

 

[blueman335]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

I'm a classic rock/blues player myself ... I Like the #2 and #4 positions on a strat...

The SG is comfy and great and a nice in between of the LP and a strat....P90 pickups are a nice middle ground also...

This isn't a debate really and it's a good thing we have so much stuff available to us...What a boring music world it would be if we just had strats and Les Pauls....Whatever works for someone is what works....Both of us have very valid examples and speak from experience.

Actually you can get close to a Strat's 2 & 4 positions by using 'coil swap' which is pairing the bridge slug & neck screw coils for that virtual HB sound. Not exactly the same, but in the ballpark.

An SG with P-90's; how about that for a great guitar? Add a couple push-pulls for series/parallel and phase, and you have some nice variety.

No debate, just that a thread on 'perfect guitar' brings out lots of approaches, and it's good to discuss the pros & cons so everyone can make an informed decision for themselves. No solution is perfect, except the one that advocates having a collection of guitars. Every guitar design has it's strengths & limitations; each of us has to look at our priorities and choose accordingly. What ever you choose, I don't care; I just hope you put some thought into it. I'm a Chicago blues/classic rock player myself, so we're playing a lot of the same music (who'd have thought?).

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

Actually you can get close to a Strat's 2 & 4 positions by using 'coil swap' which is pairing the bridge slug & neck screw coils for that virtual HB sound. Not exactly the same, but in the ballpark.

An SG with P-90's; how about that for a great guitar? Add a couple push-pulls for series/parallel and phase, and you have some nice variety.

No debate, just that a thread on 'perfect guitar' brings out lots of approaches, and it's good to discuss the pros & cons so everyone can make an informed decision for themselves. No solution is perfect, except the one that advocates having a collection of guitars. Every guitar design has it's strengths & limitations; each of us has to look at our priorities and choose accordingly. What ever you choose, I don't care; I just hope you put some thought into it. I'm a Chicago blues/classic rock player myself, so we're playing a lot of the same music (who'd have thought?).

I just pick up one of my strats and I don't have to mess with coil tapping and the other "wanna be" stuff that tries to copy that other instrument...If I need a LP tone,I play the LP...If I feel a Tele can get it,I'll play the Tele...pretty basic really...

I never stated that the strat was a "perfect" instrument....I've only stated and I'll state it here gain,that.....for me,the strat is the most versatile instrument in my array of guitars.....I'm not into coil tapping and a whole bunch of really crazy mods(other than getting the right pickups in my guitars).....I keep also trying to convey,that I don't dislike the humbucking instruments you mention and I own enough different guitars to voice a valid opinion on the subject...I'm smart enough to realize from playing for over 30 years,that one guitar just can't do "everything"...That's why I do own Teles,strats,the SG,and an awesome Tokai 59 LP Replica...I also play professionally(get payed to play) but it's still first and foremost an enjoyable hobby...No ego and no showmanship and negative competitive playing between myself and the other guitarist in our band...

I have stated some pros and cons of strat vs a LP....I just said that I prefer the strat because it's lighter,more comfy,easier upper register fret access,more note articulation,and more versatile(in my opinion and experience) over the LP or the SG...The LP and SG have more sustain and a warmer tone to offer and they work great for certain things also..

 

[blueman335]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

I have stated some pros and cons of strat vs a LP....I just said that I prefer the strat because it's lighter,more comfy,easier upper register fret access,more note articulation,and more versatile(in my opinion and experience) over the LP or the SG...The LP and SG have more sustain and a warmer tone to offer and they work great for certain things also..

That's cool. You're sounding defensive and I didn't intend for that to happen. You know what you like, and why, and I respect that. This all just opinion, which is why this thread started with a poll.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

That's cool. You're sounding defensive and I didn't intend for that to happen. You know what you like, and why, and I respect that. This all just opinion, which is why this thread started with a poll.

No actually the conversation back and forth has been educating....I'm ok with the posts and I'm not trying to come across as the end all,know it all...I'm just basing things on my own opinion,but it is just that.....

I'm fine forum brother...Sorry if you took it that way! I respect your knowledge,what you posted,and we probably have quite a bit in common also..We're fine!:beerchug:

Where in Florida are you? I'm on the west coast near Tampa...

 

[Guitarist]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

Is it just me or is it getting warm in here? :8:

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

Is it just me or is it getting warm in here? :8:

Naaaahhh I've cooled things down a bit....Musicians are funny that way....Strong opinion and strong headed...Nothing new really!

The worst of us,are the ones that speak from experience though!

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

And I notice the strats are still the poll leaders! ;o) You Gibson guys need to start voting...

 

[Guitarist]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

lol

 

[Guitarist]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

Ahem... *mic feedback* ...Gibson guys??

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

Ahem... *mic feedback* ...Gibson guys??

Ok how about non-strat player guys? ;o)

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

A Strat getting into "LP territory" is due to Fender using HB's that Gison invented, but LP's don't use skinny Fender single coils, so this isn't a level playing field. Fender tried to sound like Gibson; Gibson did not want to sound like Fender. You saw the end result, not the intention.

Not "copping a Strat tone" I see as one of the of the LP's virtues. When I listen to the radio or CD, and I can tell a guitarist is playing a Strat by the tone, to my ears, something's wrong. That thin aluminum-sounding clunk. Guys like Hendrix, Trower, Gallagher, Blackmore, & Healey knew how to get great tones with their Strats, second to none. Unfortunately the bulk of Strat players don't, and wind up sounding tinny. Treble can be overdone.

I guess that Gibson copied the adjustable bridge piece from Fender because they weren't on original Les Pauls and neither were humbuckers.....both came along a few years later.

I have played an original 1952 Les Paul and the bridge left a little to be desired....like being able to intonate the guitar. Here is more info..


I don't dislike Les pauls at all, but I feel like you continually slag Fender Strats for some reason. :dunno:

 

[ibanezrocks]

Re: POLL: "Perfect' or "Complete" guitar

I'll go with a Telecaster, with or without humbuckers.